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Author Topic: Images in Lightroom and Photoshop not matching on external display (edited)  (Read 4570 times)
tommm
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« on: August 15, 2013, 06:08:11 PM »
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Hi,

Actually not just the soft proof but it's a bigger difference there.

So, I open the same image (a tiff) in both Lightroom and Photoshop (working space Prophoto) and on the same calibrated screen(obviously). The image in Lightroom is slightly (but noticeably) more saturated.

Then with soft proofing implemented in both, with the same profile (in this case Ilford Galerie Smoot Pearl), same relative colourimetric intent and simulate paper and ink implemented in both. There is a much bigger shift in Photoshop than in Lightroom (Photoshop reducing contrast and saturation and slight hue shift, Lightroom very slightly reducing contrast and very slight hue shift). Photoshop sofproof is a much closer match to the print.

Why the difference?

Is the initial slight difference due to the different working space? But more importantly why the bigger soft proofing difference?

Thanks,

Tom[/s]
« Last Edit: August 30, 2013, 05:24:15 AM by tommm » Logged
tommm
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« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2013, 11:11:52 AM »
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I've worked out the problem but not the solution. Wonder if anybody could help?

I work on a Macbook Pro and attached NEC Spectraview 271.

After much reading (Andrew Rodney's Colour Management book and various online stuff) and head scratching and experimenting with test images (Andrew Rodney's and Bill Atkinson's) and failing to come up with an answer, I thought I'd just check what the images looked like in both applications on my Laptop screen.

Hey presto, they look identical (but obviously not as good) in Lightroom and Photoshop, whether without softproofing or with.

So could anybody help me figure out why Photoshop (CS4 in this case and I'm on Mountain Lion) is not displaying correctly on my external monitor? I presume it's not using the correct monitor profile. Any ideas?

Thanks,

Tom
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tommm
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« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2013, 05:57:50 AM »
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Sorry if this is boring anyone!

I've continued my research and experimenting....

It seems others have had the same problem in the past (2010) which was fixable (bodgeable) by nominating the external display as the main display in display preferences, in their case this resulted in Photoshop using the correct display profile, however in my case it doesn't.

My set up:

Macbook pro running Mountain Lion (10.8.4), DVI connected NEC Spectraview 271. Both displays calibrated using Spectraview 5 software and an Eye one pro puck. Photoshop working space is Prophoto RGB and is set to preserve embedded profiles. I'm using Andrew Rodney's and Bill Atkinson's test images to try and figure this out.

Behaviour:

With Lightroom and Photoshop images both displayed on the Macbook screen they match perfectly. If I drag the Lightroom window across to the NEC it changes (as you would expect - richer colours & higher contrast). If I drag the Photoshop image across to the NEC it also changes but no longer matches the Lightroom image (cooler colours).


So, I don't really know whether Photoshop or Lightroom is displaying correctly, and whether they or the OS are to blame. I had assumed it was Lightroom as the image is more pleasing but this obviously isn't necessarily the case. What is clear is that somewhere there is a difference between how Lightroom and Photoshop are converting the image numbers for monitor display on the NEC.

Does anyone know how to find out what display profile Lightroom and Photoshop are using?

Is it possible they are both using the same profile but one is not using the NEC hardware calibration? (Seems unlikely as I assume it would be impossible for the NEC to be using different internal look up tables at the same time)

Could the OS be tripping up one and not the other in some way?

Could the X-rite software (which I don't use but is installed) somehow be interfering?

Anybody able to shed some light?

Thanks,

Tom
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howardm
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« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2013, 07:24:28 AM »
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I vaguely recall having exactly such a problem.

Try this.......

Go into Photoshop Preferences -> Performance -> GPU and shut off (un-check) the box for OpenGL drawing. 

If that is the 'fix', you'll lose some of those nifty features like brush display, inertial scrolling and a few other things (no big deal)

As I recall, it was fixed in CS5 (I saw the problem in CS3 and never bought CS4)
« Last Edit: August 30, 2013, 07:37:34 AM by howardm » Logged
tommm
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« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2013, 07:38:24 AM »
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Hi,

Yes, I found a thread about that on the Photoshop forum. Unfortunately it has no effect for me, even after quitting and a restart...

But thanks for trying.

Tom
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howardm
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« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2013, 07:47:39 AM »
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that's too bad Sad

at least it's not like the problem I have w/ Nikon Capture NX2 where, when it prints, it decides to use the *display* profile regardless of me telling it otherwise (obviously) and of course, it looks fairly terrible.

This color management stuff (and associated bugs and gotcha's) is 'trying'  Roll Eyes
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tommm
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« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2013, 06:29:55 AM »
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I've now upgraded to CS6 and the mismatch between Lightroom and Photoshop on the external monitor has been solved (when not soft proofing). Never figured out what was going on in CS4 so afraid if anyone else is suffering the same the only solution I've found is updating photoshop.

However.....

The softproofing mismatch remains. I'll start a knew thread for this to avoid confusion.

Tom
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chrstr
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« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2015, 05:21:48 PM »
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I'm experiencing the same problem. I have just bought a Eizo CS240 and calibrated it with I1 Display Pro for Adobe RGB. When looking at the same image in Lightroom and Photohop the image is much more saturated and greener in Lightroom 5.7 than in Photoshop CC.

Any clues anyone?

/ Christer
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digitaldog
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« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2015, 06:02:32 PM »
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The two app's should match exactly IF:

1. You view the image in Develop module at 1:1 (and in Photoshop at 100%). Previews are generated differently outside Develop module and not as 'accurate' nor is zooming out.
2. Don't build version 4 ICC profiles for your display. LR doesn't like them. They serve no useful purpose anyway.

Naturally you need the image in Photoshop to be in the same color space as LR (so ProPhoto RGB is the way to work here).
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Andrew Rodney
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chrstr
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« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2015, 01:18:54 AM »
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Thanks! I changed to proRGB ad now it's looking good.
/ Christer
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Simon Garrett
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« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2015, 08:15:31 AM »
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Thanks! I changed to proRGB ad now it's looking good.
/ Christer

A couple of further comments (I have an Eizo CS240, and find it a terrific monitor):
  • The CS240 has a natural colour space significantly wider than Adobe RGB; all three primaries are beyond the Adobe RGB primaries.  Do you have a specific reason to restrict the gamut to Adobe RGB?  If not, I suggest calibrate in its natural gamut.  Use ColorNavigator 6 to calibrate/profile, not iProfiler, or you won't benefit from the hardware LUTs.  Specify a target with "Gamut: monitor native", not Adobe RGB.  That way you benefit from the richest gamut.  Or maybe I'm missing a good reason to restrict the gamut?
  • I have another calibration preset for sRGB, so I can switch to that for web previewing (switching profiles is only one click with the Eizo software, but I still have to restart programs - Photoshop, Lightroom etc - or they won't pick up the change of profile).
  • As Andrew says, use v2 profiles not v4 (I think Colornavigator offers 2.2 and 4.2).  Some software won't work correctly with v4 profiles, and you can get mysterious problems.
  • When you say "I changed to ProPhoto RGB", I guess you mean using ProPhoto RGB as the Photoshop working space.  I agree that's best if you're using Lightroom (so you're using the same).  In Photoshop Color Settings, I set all colour management policies to "preserve" and check all the "Ask When..." boxes (so I know when there's a profile mismatch).  

As I say, it's a great monitor.  Seems to be very stable - very little change of colour as it warms up.  
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D Fosse
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« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2015, 09:49:36 AM »
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Very good points from Simon.

In general, I'm a bit surprised that setting Photoshop to ProPhoto should solve anything. Even if the differences were mainly caused by gamut clipping, that wouldn't be visible on screen (because that is already clipped to monitor gamut; nowhere near ProPhoto).

Photoshop and Lightroom should display absolutely identically whatever profile is used in Photoshop - unless the Photoshop profile is sRGB and the monitor is wide gamut.

IME such differences are usually caused by a bad monitor profile. That can often manifest itself differently in different applications. Particularly if the source profiles are different, as they are here (linear ProPhoto vs 1.8 ProPhoto/Adobe RGB etc). So even if the destination is the same display profile, the conversion itself is different.

I have a hunch that dropping i1Profiler for ColorNavigator will solve it more permanently.
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digitaldog
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« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2015, 11:59:56 AM »
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I have a hunch that dropping i1Profiler for ColorNavigator will solve it more permanently.
+1. Yes, the OP shouldn’t use i1P for this task, use the software designed to drive the display calibration functions to it's fullest (ColorNavigator).
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Andrew Rodney
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chrstr
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« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2015, 03:28:33 PM »
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Thanks all for valuable comments. I have re-calibrated my monitor usimg ColorNavigator and version 2.2 profiles. Looking good!
/ Christer
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