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Author Topic: Looking for a large format printer IPF6400/8400?  (Read 4633 times)

arlon

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Looking for a large format printer IPF6400/8400?
« on: August 13, 2013, 09:36:45 am »

I think I'm down to a Canon IPF6400 or 8400. The 6400 would obviously fit in the house better but I do have room for the 8400. I doubt I'd really ever print wider than 3ft but then again a few years ago I thought a 16x20 was a "Large" print. It just seems like for the difference in cost I'd get more bang for the buck with the 8400. I'm just trying to talk myself up to it (assuming they come up with some rebates again). Is there any arguement at all for the 6400 (excluding cost and space)? I am a total amateur with no intention of selling prints. I'm in a smallish town with limited resources and would probably print for a few friends as well as for myself. Printing is a part of the hobby I've ignored but I'm very interested in (doing my own mats and frames, I figure why not prints). I shoot a LOT of panoramas and really want to print some stuff that would be 2-3ft wide and maybe up to 12ft long on canvas so the 8400 just seemed like a logical choice. I also won't be printing daily and it seems like the Canons have a good reputation for the casual/hobby printer.  By current printer is a dead epson 1880, this would be quite a step UP..
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Jeff Magidson

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Re: Looking for a large format printer IPF6400/8400?
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2013, 11:10:04 am »

Unless you are going to do a good volume of printing (your post implies you will not) I would not get a 8400. I own a 8300, the machine is very large and heavy. The ink cartridges cost about $150 each and the are 12 of them! You really need to purchase a service contract after the first year for about $1,250 / year, if you don't and something goes wrong with the printer (things do go wrong), a service call is about $1,200. Also, you need to print every week at least a few prints or the heads will not last long. The heads cost $450 each.

~ Jeff

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« Last Edit: August 13, 2013, 01:52:13 pm by Jeff Magidson »
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arlon

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Re: Looking for a large format printer IPF6400/8400?
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2013, 01:49:31 pm »

Unless you are going to do a good volume of printing (your post implies you will not) I would not get a 8400. I own an 8300, the machine is very large and heavy. The ink cartridges cost about $150 each and the are 12 of them! You really need to purchase a service contract after the first year for about $1,250 / year, if you don't and something goes wrong with the printer (things do go wrong), a service call is about $1,200. Also, you need to print every week at least a few prints or the heads will not last long. The heads cost $450 each.

~ Jeff

http://artslidesboston.com



Would the 6400 be any different? Seems the overhead would be less but proportional.
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Jeff Magidson

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Re: Looking for a large format printer IPF6400/8400?
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2013, 01:58:58 pm »

Would the 6400 be any different? Seems the overhead would be less but proportional.

At least with the 6400 the ink carts are smaller and better suited to a low volume user. The service contract on a 6400 is probably less but I have not priced it.
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indusphoto

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Re: Looking for a large format printer IPF6400/8400?
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2013, 08:16:23 pm »

Unless you are going to do a good volume of printing (your post implies you will not) I would not get a 8400. I own a 8300, the machine is very large and heavy. The ink cartridges cost about $150 each and the are 12 of them! You really need to purchase a service contract after the first year for about $1,250 / year, if you don't and something goes wrong with the printer (things do go wrong), a service call is about $1,200. Also, you need to print every week at least a few prints or the heads will not last long. The heads cost $450 each.

~ Jeff

http://artslidesboston.com



6400 needs to "charge" the ink lines. So by the time you are ready for first print, almost 50% of the ink is already consumed.

Larger ink tanks are a little more costly on an item basis, but the cost/ml of ink is substantially less. The head replacement is not a big issue (just search these forums). It does not happen often and Canon is known to replace them for free even out of warranty.

I am a low volume printer, but I went with 8300 for the economics of it.

arlon

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Re: Looking for a large format printer IPF6400/8400?
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2013, 08:33:50 am »

Cost isn't much of an issue for a serious hobby. Photography is my only hobby these days so compared to some of the others like collecting cars and such a $150 ink cartridge is not that big a deal. I do think that if I got the 8400, I'd find a use for the added inches. I'm still on the fence somewhat.. What I really wish they made was a 7400 in 36", that would fit my office space and needs better than the other two... Appreciate the input. (-:}
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ftbt

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Re: Looking for a large format printer IPF6400/8400?
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2013, 11:32:26 am »

They are both good machines. Yesterday I attended a large format printing workshop at Canon's Irvine HQ that was sponsored by Canon and LexJet. They had both machines on display and up and running for the workshop. At the end of the day, it just might come down to how much room you have (the 8400 is BIG) and whether you need the extra width provided by the 8400. I have an 8300 and I have been pretty happy with it, other than 1 major hiccup that I will discuss below.

I do quite a bit of large format canvas work (using BC Lyve) and for a show of my photographic work in Italy next month, (www.visionsfromlarmorra.com), all the prints were done large format ... 24 x 36 on LexJet Sunset Photo Metallic Paper. Nothing but excellent quality from the 8300 on both canvas and photo paper.

As other have said: these machines have to be used regularly and/or left powered 24/7. It doesn't say this anywhere in the printed or on-line manuals. I turned my machine off when not in use and there were times when I didn't print for several weeks. 3 months out of warranty, it stopped working with a bizarre error code. From what I could decipher from the code, I thought it was the heads. I called Canon, they had me do a status check over the phone (that confirmed very little ink had actually been run through the heads). However, the error code seemed to indicate it was actually something more than the heads .... a small logic board. Since I was out of warranty, the "service call" by Pitney Bowes (they do the service for Canon) was $1,500.00 + tax. They replaced the small board, put in new heads, and changed the maintenance cartridge. Oh, all of that also used up about 1/2 of the ink in the tanks .... so I also ended up having to buy more ink! When I called Canon support, the first question their service tech asked was, " do you turn your machine off." When I said, "Yes," his reply was, "don't ever do that."  (However, with their new firmware, in order to receive Energy Star compliance by default the machine will shut-off automatically on its own if not being used for a period of time .... which can be changed if you drill down into the firmware's menu and change that default.)

So, a word to the wise, consider buying the maintenance contract, (it is extremely hard to find third party maintenance/repair companies to work on Canon machines since Canon keeps a tight control on parts), and, if nothing else, leave your machine powered 24/7.

With all of that said, I really don't think you will be disappointed with either machine.

Good luck.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2013, 11:34:11 am by ftbt »
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mg73

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Re: Looking for a large format printer IPF6400/8400?
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2013, 08:40:10 am »

A question about turning the machine off.  I have and 8400 and the machine will switch itself off when not in use for a period of time.  I believe it goes into some kind of idle mode that isn't quite full off.  I'm actually not sure whether it is full off or some kind of idle mode.  Are you saying you must change the default so the machine does not go into this automatic off mode but stays on (ie the light in the on button remains on)?
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ftbt

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Re: Looking for a large format printer IPF6400/8400?
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2013, 09:34:21 am »

A question about turning the machine off.   ... Are you saying you must change the default so the machine does not go into this automatic off mode but stays on (ie the light in the on button remains on)?

Yes. In order to be "Energy Star" compliant Canon has to have power-saving functions built in. Older firmware didn't have it. New firmware does. Since you have an 8400 I am sure that it has the newest firmware. As I said, you can drill down through the firmware menu and disable the power saving function, so that the machine will: (1) stay on all the time and by so doing, (2) periodically run its internal maintenance cycles automatically while powered on.
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Tariq

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Re: Looking for a large format printer IPF6400/8400?
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2013, 07:14:17 pm »



As other have said: these machines have to be used regularly and/or left powered 24/7. It doesn't say this anywhere in the printed or on-line manuals. I turned my machine off when not in use and there were times when I didn't print for several weeks. 3 months out of warranty, it stopped working with a bizarre error code. From what I could decipher from the code, I thought it was the heads. I called Canon, they had me do a status check over the phone (that confirmed very little ink had actually been run through the heads). However, the error code seemed to indicate it was actually something more than the heads .... a small logic board. Since I was out of warranty, the "service call" by Pitney Bowes (they do the service for Canon) was $1,500.00 + tax. They replaced the small board, put in new heads, and changed the maintenance cartridge. Oh, all of that also used up about 1/2 of the ink in the tanks .... so I also ended up having to buy more ink! When I called Canon support, the first question their service tech asked was, " do you turn your machine off." When I said, "Yes," his reply was, "don't ever do that."  (However, with their new firmware, in order to receive Energy Star compliance by default the machine will shut-off automatically on its own if not being used for a period of time .... which can be changed if you drill down into the firmware's menu and change that default.)

So, a word to the wise, consider buying the maintenance contract, (it is extremely hard to find third party maintenance/repair companies to work on Canon machines since Canon keeps a tight control on parts), and, if nothing else, leave your machine powered 24/7.

With all of that said, I really don't think you will be disappointed with either machine.

Good luck.

Almost the same exact thing happened to my 8300 after only two years, fairly light use and very low ink through the heads.  Out of warranty, Canon offered no help whatsoever so after a $180 service call where the tech was told by Canon to start replacing stuff - the carriage as they no longer replace just the small board there according to Canon, a ribbon cable, heads and who knows what else - I declined to put the money into it as the same amount of $$ plus ink replacement would also buy a new machine!  I told Canon I would likely go with Epson rather than risk this happening again since my older Epson 9600 ran trouble free for eight years... and is still running perfectly for the person I sold it to after only replacing the dampers!  Unfortunately, I suspect all these printers, even the Epson's, have just gotten so complex that it's likely none of them are as robust and easy to maintain as earlier printers.  This Canon in particular really pissed me off the way it's automation locked me completely out of doing anything with an error code that was not able to be cleared even from the service mode.  It's now a huge boat anchor in my studio until I replace it with something hopefully more reliable.
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epatsellis

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Re: Looking for a large format printer IPF6400/8400?
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2013, 12:39:01 pm »

Same situation here, 3500 square feet, 3 months out of warranty weird head related errors, seemingly never the same error code twice. After a month of soul searching, we bought a new 8400. At least I have a nearly complete set of inks I can use, as well as two new heads.

 Our 8300 was always on and regularly used, and the parts situation was the final straw, if I could have gotten the carriage board as well as the other bits, I'd probably have fixed it myself. The numerous stories of parts swapping until it works by techs is disturbing to me.
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Bullfrog

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Re: Looking for a large format printer IPF6400/8400?
« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2013, 07:06:32 pm »

These reports of 8400 problems have really enlightened me. My Canon 6100 is now in its 5th year - last year I think I printed 3 times...and it has had only one minor problem - no replacement of parts.

I keep it on 24/7 - it goes into power save mode and does a routine cleaning but with minimal ink loss.  The thing is just plugging along - I hope at least for another year or two. 

To the Op: If you have no volume - but want the convenience of having a printer available to you, I would lease or rent if you can - for not more than 2 years.  Why buy something you will never get your money back on (based on your stated objectives).

If on the other hand, after 2 years you decide its something you want to pursue on a more permanent basis, there is usually a buy out at the end of the lease.

For me, when mine goes - I will have to really invest some time researching the newer models and if the canon printers are not reliable - will jump ship to Epson (which I might do anyway)
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enduser

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Re: Looking for a large format printer IPF6400/8400?
« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2013, 08:42:09 pm »

My story is the same as Bullfrog's with a 6100.  But the rental idea is obviously the way to go - who here rents, and what are the costings?. Thanks.
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Tariq

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Re: Looking for a large format printer IPF6400/8400?
« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2013, 01:05:07 am »

These reports of 8400 problems have really enlightened me. My Canon 6100 is now in its 5th year - last year I think I printed 3 times...and it has had only one minor problem - no replacement of parts.

At least in this thread, I believe the problems have been with the 8300 so perhaps Canon sorted out any issues with the 8400.  It does seem a bit suspicious that the 8300 had such a short life cycle (less than three years).  I'm pretty convinced that in my case, an issue with the lightly used heads somehow must have taken out at least the board in the carriage (and possibly worse).  That should have never happened and seems like an obvious, clear-cut manufacturer design defect.  

My machine was also left on, connected to a heavy duty uninterrupted power supply and I printed at least every two to three weeks.  I know many high volume users have had no issues with this printer but the very reason I bought it was the expectation that it would be more tolerable of periodic use than the Epsons.  Heck, I expected to replace heads more often for this reason but I never thought a head malfunction would take out the rest of the electronics...and Canon not even stand behind their product in such a case.  Before this incident, I was wholeheartedly recommending these Canons to schools, institutions and others I work and consult with.  No more.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2013, 01:08:23 am by Tariq »
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Bullfrog

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Re: Looking for a large format printer IPF6400/8400?
« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2013, 08:35:25 am »

Thanks for correction - 8300 - not 8400.  Its interesting because I understood the value of the printer jumped significantly from 6100 to 6300 - and while I don't have anything scientific - everything I read was that the 6300 was a huge success.   When I say value, I refer to the overall technology and improvement.   The 6400 was not (to my knowledge) a problem - but according to again what I read feature/benefit ratio decreased.

I simply assumed the 8300 would be the same.

Canon introduces new camera bodies every day except Sunday  ::)- so I'm not sure the 8400 was introduced for any other reason than they seem to be a prolific manufacturer who believes (rightly or not) that to stay competitive, they must continue to upgrade their offerings.  I'm sure its done also hoping people like us will take the bait and upgrade.

Regardless, this information is appreciated and I've bookmarked the thread.  Next time around - I may lease or rent and appreciate any feedback from anyone who has.  I know Vistek will lease equipment and I've looked at renting a lense from them for a short trip - but I have no direct experience.  I'm wondering if parts and labour is still your responsibility after warranty period expires (probably...)
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arlon

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Re: Looking for a large format printer IPF6400/8400?
« Reply #15 on: August 19, 2013, 11:54:01 am »

Renting in my area isn't much of an option. If anything I'll buy one and see what I do with it for the first 6mo. If I don't use it enough to justify, I'll just put it on craigslist and deduct what it would have cost to rent from the price. I am leaning more towards a 6400 and for starters than the 8400. I just don't want to have to redo the house for a printer that I might or might not use. The 6400 would be a "drop in" while the 8400 would take some creative rearranging.
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Darrel

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Re: Looking for a large format printer IPF6400/8400?
« Reply #16 on: August 19, 2013, 12:13:23 pm »

I would seriously consider a HP Z3200.  It is a much more compact and lighter printer in the 44 inch width.  They also have the 24" width.  In regards to low volume usage, the HP is better suited for that.  The canon heads are very expensive and you must budget for at least 1 head $450 per year, no matter what your usage, but more is better.  Even if you do a bit of weekly printing on the canon, you are not exercising the lightly used colors which are the ones that will clog.
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Alan Zimmerman

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Re: Looking for a large format printer IPF6400/8400?
« Reply #17 on: August 19, 2013, 04:54:31 pm »

My 6100 just quit on both print heads within 2 days. That brought me to this thread. I've also done sporadic printing , sometimes with intervals of 2 or more weeks. These heads lasted only 14 months. I'm considering the 6400 but trying to find exactly what is better or different than the 6100 before I make another canon purchase. Do any of you have the 6400 and if so , any features which would predict better head life.?
Alan
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