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Author Topic: Color overly saturated in browser, identical to soft proofing of monitor profile  (Read 12749 times)

brntoki

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Thanks, D Fosse.

Good information in your post. It doesn't explain my situation, however, in that there is no change in Firefox in any mode, 0, 1, 2, with restarts to make sure it takes effect. I'm currently on setting 1. I get the same look with or without an embedded profile, which is as it should be as long as the file is an sRGB image (with or without embedding).

My question would be: Does your setup show you a shift when you proof with Monitor RGB option? It would seem it shouldn't, but it does. If color management is operating properly, then my, say, ProPhoto image is being interpreted through filters to show properly on my display. When proofed, the image is shown as if it were converted to the display profile, correct? If so, there should be no change. Yet . . . there is a change.

To check this, I opened the jpg with an sRGB profile, and converted to my monitor profile: No change. I then went back to sRGB and did a proof, this time going into custom and manually choosing my monitor profile: It shifts. BUT! Only if preserve RGB numbers is checked. Unchecked, I get the image unshifted. That seems to make perfect sense, but that implies that when I save for web, the conversion is doing something wrong: It shows the correct preview, but the actual conversion is as if "preserve RGB numbers" is checked somewhere. I don't even think there is that option in save for web, and I'd know better to turn it off if it did.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2013, 11:50:20 pm by brntoki »
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D Fosse

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Does your setup show you a shift when you proof with Monitor RGB option?

Yes, it does, and it should, since it turns display color management off. Saturation increase from an sRGB file, minimal change from Adobe RGB, and desaturation from a ProPhoto file. This is all as expected. All this is on a wide gamut display.

As for the proof options: Preserve numbers checked is equivalent to "assign profile", while Preserve numbers unchecked is equivalent to "convert to profile". Those two options are drastically different:

Assign profile will show a color shift, since the numbers in the file are interpreted differently. This is an "expert" option that you normally don't use, except when a profile is missing, or to correct outright mistakes.

Convert to profile keeps the appearance unchanged (as far as possible), and changes the RGB numbers to achieve that. This is the normal color management operation that takes place when an image is sent to the display: the embedded document profile is converted to the monitor profile, by the application on the fly, thus preserving the correct appearance.

What really happens when you proof is that color management goes an extra round: Instead of the normal document profile > monitor profile, it goes document profile > proof profile > monitor profile. The first transformation can be either an assign or a convert - that's the checked/unchecked option. The extra round in either case limits the gamut to the proof profile, and that's what you see on screen. But the second transformation is always a convert.

To sum up, think of it this way: Color management always requires two profiles, a source and a destination. If only one is present in the equation, nothing happens. And if the two profiles are identical (by whatever route), again nothing happens and color management is effectively turned off.

Anyway, that's the theory. In your case, if you have Firefox set to mode 1 and you still see oversaturation, something's not working as it should. That setting should take care of any missing profile by assigning sRGB to it (this is of course all under the assumption that the file has sRGB numbers). I have a wide gamut monitor and Firefox at mode 1, and I never see oversaturation anywhere, with or without embedded profiles. Flash possibly excluded.

In fact that setting displays everything strictly correctly, fully color managed even if there is no embedded profile (since sRGB is assigned). The "normal" situation is that the monitor's native color space is assumed to be "close enough" to sRGB. And with a standard gamut display it usually is, but it's not a perfect match. There will always be slight color and tonal shifts.

Perhaps it's time to run through normal troubleshooting procedures, reset preferences and so on. There is a way to reset Save For Web preferences separately from Photoshop, but I can't recall what it was. For Photoshop it's the standard "three finger salute" on startup. For Firefox maybe a full reinstall and cleanup of user account folders. And recalibrate while you're at it.

Oh, BTW: The preview options in Save For Web are just that - proof options. They don't affect the exported file.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2013, 03:56:44 am by D Fosse »
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brntoki

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Thank you very much for the detail, D Fosse.

Alright, there were a few misconceptions I had that I think are cleared up now. All, unfortunately, except the one issue, whatever it is, that's causing my problem  :(

I have been going into more standard troubleshooting mode as you suggest. I was considering a reinstall, yet another recalibration (with old inadequate software, but generally serviceable), and have already tried disabling my firewall which can be pretty strict in what communication is allowed between programs and services, etc. I started up Photoshop on my Admin account, which I never do, and so all the settings were at their defaults, but I have the same issue. I think I'll do the three finger salute, reprofile, and reinstall in that order to see if it helps.

Thanks a lot for your ideas and time.
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brntoki

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« Reply #23 on: August 14, 2013, 10:14:58 am »

It was the monitor profile. For some reason, between Firefox and my monitor, something wasn't getting done correctly. I guess Firefox couldn't use the profile for some strange reason. Everything is now acting as expected.

Thanks a ton everyone for helping me try to fix this. I figured it was something more easily identifiable, like a simple PS setting.
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D Fosse

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Ah. It was the butler once again...  ;D
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brntoki

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Ah. It was the butler once again...  ;D

This time with a puck!
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digitaldog

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However, in mode 1, Firefox assigns sRGB to any untagged material (although Flash galleries may be an exception; I don't know).

Depends on the version of Flash among other items. Best to ignore Flash, it's inconsistent and a PITA in terms of color management.
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http://www.digitaldog.net/
Author "Color Management for Photographers".

brntoki

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Depends on the version of Flash among other items. Best to ignore Flash, it's inconsistent and a PITA in terms of color management.

I seem to recall that is reason #128 for me not liking Adobe anymore.  ;D
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