Choosing a Nikon super-telephoto for Hummingbird photography

[Brian Hirschfeld]

It seems that my late-summer hobby has become photographing hummingbirds, which I have done with some success (I'm counting figuring out my AF settings so that I can get in-focus shots as "some success") and I am considering renting a super-telephoto for some more shots, Currently I'm shooting my Nikon D4 with a 70-200mm f/2.8 VRii and a 2x TC with a SB-900 mounted on camera at 1/16th power in FP mode for illumination.

I am going to get one of those better-beamer things for the flash either way since that seems like it will be useful. The lenses I am considering are the

200-400mm f/4.0 (min 6.6' feet)
300mm f/2.8 (min 7.2' feet)
400mm f/2.8 (min 9.5' feet)
500mm f/4.0 (min 13.1' feet)
600mm f/4.0 (min 16.4' feet)
800mm f/5.6 (min 19.36' feet)

whichever I choose I will consider using the 2x TC with it, and the main question I am left with is that considering their minimum focus distances (listed above) and their focal lengths, which will offer me the best magnification assuming that I am shooting close to their minimum focusing distance, its between 5-6 feet away. I'm not sure how to figure this out and would appreciate some help and insight on which of these lenses might have the best AF for this task....any other recommendations are more then welcome as well. Currently I have to crop at-least 50% to get a composition that I am happy which causes an unacceptable loss of resolution for me. Thank you,

Sample shots are at 400mm @ f/5.6 (wide open) because of the cropping, noise is a bit of an issue, shot at ISO 2000 / 2500 / 3200

[BernardLanguillier]

Based on the data you are providing, it would seem that the 400 f2.8 has the highest enlarging ratio among the fixed focal lenses. Are you sure that the mininal focusing distance of the 200-400 remains constant accross the focal range? I am a bit surprised by this.

The 400 f2.8 it is the best optically among the Nikon super teles. Overall, you will probably also get better optical results with the 1.7 converter.

Now, I wouldn't be surprised if the 400mm f2.8 were replaced pretty soon to adopt the fluorite elements seen in the new 800mm f5.6. This would probably further improve it image quality with a possible reduction in weight also. But money doesn't appear to be a factor for you, so you would be able to buy the new one when it show up anyway.  

Cheers,
Bernard

[powerslave12r]

Have you considered a Nikon V1 with the 30-110? I know it's not the same league as a D4, but the features it has seem useful for hummer shooting - especially video. Just throwing this option out there.

BTW for giggles, here's one I shot with my 6D and 50 f/1.4.


Duuude, where's the party? by power slave, on Flickr

[Brian Hirschfeld]

@Bernard, Thank you for the suggestion, that is the lens that I will try. As I said right now I'm renting since I'm not shooting enough wildlife to warrant a super-telephoto sitting in my house but you never know where life will take you, so thanks for the heads up on the suggestion on waiting for a new version.

@powerslave12r isn't there a V2 now? is the AF going to be better for these purposes? I'm not sure how far the IQ of the V2 would get me. Also I'm not sure what the AF would be like using longer lenses with the adapter (I know thats not what you suggested but I am also pondering about that outloud) thanks for the help.

Also I have been considering shooting an OM-D for myself not necessarily for hummingbirds, but I'm considering renting OM-D + Four Thirds Adapter + 2x TC + 150mm f/2.0 to see how that works, do we have any experience with that?

[degrub]

The 2x Oly tc is soft. I wouldn't bother. But it is  a rental......

are you planning manual focus with the 150  or auto ?
it isn't the fastest withe the EM5. The 2x tc will make it a bit worse with the loss of light. You may want to wait for the new OMD with special adapter i hear is coming. Supposed to improve auto focus speed with 4/3 lenses if the sensor can support phase and contrast focus methods.

I would talk with Glenn Bartley about what focal length works well with hummers. Many of his posts show the 500 +1.4 tc.

Frank

[Brian Hirschfeld]

Thanks for the response, I will certainly wait on any Olympus purchase since its not terribly pressing until we see what the new product is, then again I will still probably rent it to satiate my curiosity on the subject since its not horrifically over-the top expensive. I wish I could've rented the Olympus 300mm f/2.8 to try on the EM5 but Borrowlenses (I assume) only has one and its rented for a couple of months (which seems damns strange for me considering the rental price / the used price of the lens) but anyway, I digress, I will try it out and see what happens, maybe after the 400mm since I feel like that would be a gear overload.

Though if they rent the V2, maybe I'll grab that and the adapter and see since I saw in a video it looked like the focus speed was decent, but then I believe it was focusing at infinity anyway.

[billh]

Here are a couple with the 200-400 on the D3s. The best bird combo I’ve found is the D800E with the 600 f4.0, but you need to use the Wimberly II head for this lens because it is so large and heavy.


http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n561/billh96007/Wildlife/Hummingbird550mmf63ISO1600C10496.jpg

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n561/billh96007/Wildlife/HummingbirdLR2-0259.jpg

[Ellis Vener]

You might also consider the new version of the 80-400mm f/4.5-5.6G ED VR . Close focus is ~1.5 meters. When your individual camera bodies have the their autofocus micro adjusted for the lens, subject resolution is pretty crisp.

What I might look at instead of a multi-thousand dollar super telephoto is a 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II , tripod mounted and remotely fired by either one of these http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=887197&Q=&is=REG&A=details or by you using a CamRanger (http://www.camranger.com).

The better beamer is interesting  but I'm not sure you absolutely need it unless you like to stand well off and use flash on camera.

[telyt]

Are the hummingbirds in your yard?  I ask because hummingbirds are pretty much fearless - I've had them drinking out of the feeder while I'm holding the feeder.  I've been using a 280mm lens (on a 1.37x crop camera) for my local Black-chinned Hummingbirds and I could easily use a shorter lens.





IMHO it's much easier to track the little buzz-birds with a shorter lens.

BTW I'm not using flash at all, the lens is manual focus and ISO is 400.  In your own yard you can choose the ambient lighting and backgrounds.  Move the feeder if you need to, the hummingbirds will find it.  A lawn chair is a useful accessory.

I tried using flash for a few photos and was not satisfied with the results.  Unless you use enough light to totally overpower ambient lighting most of the bird will show some blur.  Hummingbirds while hovering will hold their head perfectly still but the rest of the bird is vibrating at 50 to 60 Hz.

[JohnBrew]

I used to get good hummer shots with a 180 on a crop-frame body. Like Doug says, you can get fairly close to them.

[Brian Hirschfeld]

Yes, they are in my yard.

I read about people having it set p and have a trigger, but I can't believe it would be able to focus fast enough with the trigger as well, and I don't think pre-focusing is really possible.

Thanks, I;ll report back with what I get

[telyt]

I read about people having it set p and have a trigger, but I can't believe it would be able to focus fast enough with the trigger as well, and I don't think pre-focusing is really possible.

Hummingbirds will often back up from the feeder briefly between sips of nectar, hovering clear of the feeder long enough for manual focus.  You have to watch for those moments and be ready.

[Brian Hirschfeld]

Yes, thats what I have found as well.

That sounds like your trying to make me break my Mamiya 500mm f/4.5 with that manual focusing talk.

Thoughts on shutter speed? I want to bring my ambient light up and bring down my my ISO, I decided to first rent the 400mm f/2.8 so if I shoot it at 2.8 I might be able to achieve this.

[telyt]

That sounds like your trying to make me break my Mamiya 500mm f/4.5 with that manual focusing talk.

I guess that's a pick-your-poison thing 

Thoughts on shutter speed? I want to bring my ambient light up and bring down my my ISO, I decided to first rent the 400mm f/2.8 so if I shoot it at 2.8 I might be able to achieve this.

Depends a lot on what ambient light you're working with.  In the two photos above I set the feeder up so that it would be at the edge of shade at the day's first light with the dawn sky behind me; shutter speed was 1/500 sec, ISO 400, f/4.  The photo below was in full sunlight, ISO 400, 1/3000 sec @ f/8



I don't know that a 400mm f/2.8 is going to help much.  I found that the huge entrance pupil of the 400mm f/2.8 (mine was a Canon, emphasis on was) freaked the critters out where a slower lens didn't.  I had to use extenders on the 400/2.8 nearly all the time because I couldn't get close enough.  Slower lens like a 400mm f/5.6, not nearly as much of a problem.  With the 400/2.8 DOF wide open at close range was minuscule too, like "which part of the eyeball do you want in focus" minuscule.

Likewise I don't think the flash will help much.  One pop and "my" birds were gone.  It sounds to me like you're trying to solve the problem with technology where technique can work as well if not better (and certainly more economically).

[Brian Hirschfeld]

That is very possible, I think the next combination I will try (read next week) is renting an 80-400mm vrii and a d800 and see what I get, theres just sometimes you have to satiate some curiosity and learn for yourself, though I think you are correct.

I also rented a Nikon V2 so I can try that out with some different lenses, thinking I would try my 105 Macro / 24-70 / 70-200 and see what sort of, if any type of usable files I could get out of it, I know already Ill hate the EVF, but its worth the lesson either way....oh and I'll try it with the 400 lol.

[telyt]

That is very possible, I think the next combination I will try (read next week) is renting an 80-400mm vrii and a d800 and see what I get, theres just sometimes you have to satiate some curiosity and learn for yourself

Absolutely correct, and what doesn't work for me might be just the thing for you.

EDIT: Here's an example of excellent quality work using equipment that doesn't work for me:

http://www.lawrencebeck.com/Portfolios/Pages/Hummingbirds.html

Lawrence Beck (who shows up on this forum occasionally) uses a 400mm f/2.8 and flash.  It's manual focus though 

[Rand47]

That is very possible, I think the next combination I will try (read next week) is renting an 80-400mm vrii and a d800 and see what I get, theres just sometimes you have to satiate some curiosity and learn for yourself, though I think you are correct.

That combo might work very well.  Here's an example I shot with a 4/3 Olympus using the 50-200 which is pretty much focal length equivalent:



I the original EXIF says I was at an equivalent 316 mm.

By the way, anyone know what particular kind of hummingbird this is?

Rand

[telyt]

By the way, anyone know what particular kind of hummingbird this is?

If this is near your home there are several possibilities but it looks like it may be a Black-chinned Hummingbird because I don't see the gorget color extending to the crown which rules out Anna's Hummingbird and Costa's Hummingbird.

[Rand47]

If this is near your home there are several possibilities but it looks like it may be a Black-chinned Hummingbird because I don't see the gorget color extending to the crown which rules out Anna's Hummingbird and Costa's Hummingbird.

Thanks... yes, here in So California.  Right in my back yard.

Rand