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Author Topic: Piezography and Epson 3880  (Read 5573 times)

chez

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Piezography and Epson 3880
« on: August 09, 2013, 02:30:08 pm »

I am thinking of getting a 3880 and converting it to run the Piezography inkset. Currently I use an old 2200 and its on it's last legs.

I'd like to hear from people who have experience with the 3880 for B&W work and if they had any issues with the printer as far as using the Piezography inksets. My 2200 clogs on occasion when I don't use it, but becomes unclogged with a few cleaning cycles. How does the 3880 handle clogging with these inks, especially if not printed with for a few weeks at a time.
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Ken Doo

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Re: Piezography and Epson 3880
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2013, 02:59:28 pm »

You might want to search "pizza wheel marks" and the Epson 38**, particularly in regards to glossy B&W printing.  Some have difficulties, some don't.  There are workarounds, but ymmv.

I converted a 9800 to K7 B&W Piezography and have since moved on and converted a 9890 to K7 Piezography.  Can't tell you personal experience about clogging with the 38** series, but I've had zero issues running K7 inks through my 9890, other than an occasional cleaning.  I do run HHC on this printer when it's not in regular use or I'm out of the studio.  The 38** series should be better with regard to clogging (my guess is print head orientation and how the head parks); I doubt you'll have clogging problems with the K7 inksets.  If you want to err on the side of caution, I'd let HHC run scheduled daily nozzle checks in your absence.

You're gonna love your K7 B&W images.

ken

LynnNoah

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Re: Piezography and Epson 3880
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2013, 11:10:02 pm »

I purchased a new 3880 over a year ago specifically to convert to piezography glossy inks.  I had begun running these new MPS inks on an 1900, after some years using the K7 matte inks, and the results were so good I wanted a second dedicated printer with different MPS ink mixtures.  With the smaller Epson desktops (1900, 2000, 2880), the small refillable ink carts enable you to play around with various ink combinations and papers to see what you like best.  The different combinations have very different effects.  Rather than fixing on a favorite inkset, I found I wanted to let the type and purpose of each image determine the inkset which gives the most appropriate effect.  Inkjetmall's refillable carts enable you to have more than one set if you want to, or to change only a couple of shades as long as you use ink of the same shade number.

My 3880 has worked perfectly since I went through lots of tests and got familiar with the workflow.  I was worried because I read on several websites that some users were getting pizza wheel marks and an article by Ctein on "The Online Photographer" site reported his research that there were quality variations in his sample of 3880's.  For a discussion of 3880/peizography issues see:



I have never seen a pizza wheel or other repeated defect coming from my 3880.  I've never had a clog on the 3880 or with any of the piezography inks.  The Inkjetmall website and Cone's blog have several tips on ink maintenance. 

The essential first step after buying a 3880 is to test several papers and sizes with the original Epson inks and be ruthless, while your warranty is new, to get Epson to replace any printer with defects demonstrated to be due to the printer.   The only incident I had in my tests was a head strike on Cone Type 5 paper -- this was solved easily by widening the platen gap and by Jon Cone's advice to leave the paper out for a while in your print room to adjust to the humidity.  (The customer support from Inkjetmall is superior.)

When I was uncertain about selecting an inkset, I sent a test image to Inkjetmall for sample prints.  I'm now using mostly selenium and special edition in the two printers, with some variations in the low and high shades.  Purchasing refillable cart sets for the 3880 is more expensive than the small printers, and you have provide chips from your OEM set, from used carts, or purchase them, so if you know someone who will give or sell you cheaply used OEM carts it's a big convenience.  If you have any questions when getting set up, let us know.

Lynn



 

     
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LynnNoah

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Re: Piezography and Epson 3880
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2013, 11:21:49 pm »

For some reason the link I mentioned above didn't take.  I'll try again:

www.getdpi.com/forum/printing-output/35057-piezography-question.html
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StephaneB

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Re: Piezography and Epson 3880
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2013, 12:52:39 pm »

For what it is worth, I bought an R3000 last January specifically to use with Piezography. Due to inconsistencies and reliability issues in printing throught QTRGui (I am on windows) I reverted to Epson K3 inks and... it works just great.

It does take some initial tests to calibrate the neutrality (amount of cold/warm you want depending on the paper) and then using QTR to create an ICC profile helps to perfect the rendering.

But the end result is at least as good as Piezo. Certainly on luster, semi gloss and gloss papers, the gloss differential is much much lower than with Piezography inks, even when using the Cone gloss optimizer layer, which does not work all that well.

Today I feel I wasted much money on Piezography. Current Epson printers allow to prouce B&W that is every bit as good, better in many cases, rendering Piezography obsolete as far as I am concerned.

I would add that I felt a bit cheated when I noticed they sell their color inks much cheaper than their B&W inks...
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Stéphane  [url=http://www.lumieredargen

Ken Doo

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Re: Piezography and Epson 3880
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2013, 01:35:38 pm »

....

But the end result is at least as good as Piezo. Certainly on luster, semi gloss and gloss papers, the gloss differential is much much lower than with Piezography inks, even when using the Cone gloss optimizer layer, which does not work all that well.

....

My guess is that you've missed something in the install or something in the printing workflow for piezography.  Cone's gloss optimizer works exceptionally well, and the curves are designed to work together with selected papers.  Your comments here tell me that something is awry in your application of the GO.  Maybe the R3000 is not a good K7 conversion candidate?  I've tested printing B&W images with my Epson 9900, and every single time---a B&W image from my K7 Piezography MPS 9890 printer is better in the shadows and tonality of the print.  Is it at the level where you say the 9900 print is a pos?  Of course not, the Epson K3 inkset is capable of excellent B&W prints.  But in my experience, K7 piezography prints from my 9800 and my 9890 are consistently better than anything from my 9900.  It's just a step above.  I think the experience of other printer members here such as Tyler Boley and Jon Dean reflect the same.

ken
« Last Edit: August 12, 2013, 01:37:39 pm by kdphotography »
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StephaneB

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Re: Piezography and Epson 3880
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2013, 02:03:03 pm »

Applying GO for Piezo is simple. Just print a uniformly blank square with the GO curve, GO will cover all the printable area of the paper. I agree it does work very well on some papers, but try on Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Satin, Moab Colorado Satin, Moab Colorado Gloss and the deep blacks patches remain stubbornly matte.

For the shadows, I understand what you mean. I have done digital B&W printing since 2003, starting with Piezography on an Epson 1280. Well, by setting the shadow tonality and maximum print desity appropriately in the ABW driver, followed by profiling, the shadow detail and contrast is just as good with ABW compared to Piezo.

Piezo is generally noticeably better than ABW with default settings, but not compared to ABW properly tuned and profiled.

I should ask that being on Windows instead of Mac seems to have an importance. I never experienced printing artefacts when using Piezo or MIS inks with QTR on a Mac, but on Windows, you have to rely on QTRGui which appears to be on light maintenance at best and is not reliable.

I also did not try to get custom curves from Cone.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2013, 02:08:46 pm by StephaneB »
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Stéphane  [url=http://www.lumieredargen

DavidPalermo

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Re: Piezography and Epson 3880
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2014, 01:43:04 pm »

StephaneB:  What is your method for properly tuning and profiling for Epson's ABW?

"Piezo is generally noticeably better than ABW with default settings, but not compared to ABW properly tuned and profiled."

Thanks!

David
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StephaneB

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Re: Piezography and Epson 3880
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2014, 02:35:04 pm »

StephaneB:  What is your method for properly tuning and profiling for Epson's ABW?

"Piezo is generally noticeably better than ABW with default settings, but not compared to ABW properly tuned and profiled."

Thanks!

David

Well, I used to use ABW with a B&W ICC profile made with QTR. It was the best B&W results I got before... getting a proper colour profile !

I learned to use ArgyllCMS to produce high quality colour profiles that include extra information for monochrome profiling. It requires a proper spectrophotometer, patience and persistence. ArgyllCMS is a suite of command-line utilities.

You can find the tutorial that "saved" me here : http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3629747#forum-post-53186201

Now I use just one profile, just one workflow independent of whether I print colour or B&W. And I can easily tone my B&W prints with LightRoom.
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Stéphane  [url=http://www.lumieredargen
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