Pages: 1 2 [3] 4   Go Down

Author Topic: Hasselblad no longer servicing H3D (or earlier) digital backs  (Read 18736 times)

design_freak

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1119
Re: Hasselblad no longer servicing H3D (or earlier) digital backs
« Reply #40 on: August 10, 2013, 04:06:54 PM »

That's really not a fair statement.

I guess it's easy for me to say since I don't own a h3d, but nobody services electronic stuff forever.  I'm amazed my p21+ and my p30+ are even allowed in Phase One's software and that they continue to improve their files.  OK I guess I should say real lucky.

Anyway, the high end market  .  . . actually the market for all cameras has taken a hit in the last couple of years.   The camera of choice of the millenials and their parents is a cell phone and those amateurs that use to load up one roll of neg film a week in their Bronicas, Blads and Nikons kept us all in professional equipment. 

Lately Hasselblad has taken a lot of heat for the lumina and in a way I can see some of it is justified, but they're just pushing for a market that a lot of companies is going for.  I saw on the Wall Street Journal Yesterday, $5,000 lingerie with real gold stitching.   There market is Russia and some of the Arab states.  I would imagine that is the same for the lumina.

The only thing I can really fault hasselblad for is their software.  It's not bad, it's not great and honestly if you buy an h5d at this point it really should be great.

Other than that, they're just trying to turn a profit.

What I find more interesting is the fact that a large percentage of the younger assistants I work with all want to shoot some kind of film camera.  I guess they feel they missed something (maybe they did) and film cameras are cheap, but their next choice is a cell phone.

That can't be good for any of us.

IMO

BC

it was sarcasm ...
Logged
Best regards,
DF

-------------------------------------------
WORK HARD AND BE NICE TO PEOPLE
-------------------------------------------

jerome_m

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 671
Re: Hasselblad no longer servicing H3D (or earlier) digital backs
« Reply #41 on: August 10, 2013, 05:31:54 PM »

Anyone knows if its possible to buy a H4Dx with good trade in price if anyone with a old H1/H2/H3D have a fatal malfunction with no repair?

The H1/H2/H3D bodies can still be serviced without problem. The H4x can only be traded in against a H1 or H2/H2F, not an H3.
Logged

JV

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 981
Re: Hasselblad no longer servicing H3D (or earlier) digital backs
« Reply #42 on: August 11, 2013, 02:33:25 AM »

I am still hoping that the collaboration between Sony and Hasselblad will eventually result in something great...
but it is true that every time Hasselblad has been in the news lately the message was not exactly hopeful...
Some communication that emphasizes that HB is committed to its MFDB offerings would probably be appreciated by lots of people...

Most software companies typically only support the last 2 major releases, in HB terms that would be H4 and H5...

See also communication last year about Leica no longer replacing the LCD screen of the M8:
http://lavidaleica.com/content/storm-brewing-over-m8-lcd-issue

It is very sad... If you have an M1 to M7 chances are that it will still work a long time from now, if you have a M8 or M9 most likely not.

Same for Hasselblad.  The V cameras risk outliving the H cameras...
« Last Edit: August 11, 2013, 03:13:35 AM by JV »
Logged

torger

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3058
Re: Hasselblad no longer servicing H3D (or earlier) digital backs
« Reply #43 on: August 11, 2013, 02:44:53 AM »

Due to the pricing people expect longer term support and service than for typical electronic products, and they should. So while I do think the long-term support from some of the MFDB manufacturers is impressive I think it's something you should expect for a product costing $30K at its release.
Logged

EricWHiss

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2565
    • Rolleiflex USA
Re: Hasselblad no longer servicing H3D (or earlier) digital backs
« Reply #44 on: August 11, 2013, 02:45:50 AM »

Same for Hasselblad.  The V cameras risk outliving the H cameras...

I think a lot of older stuff was designed to last a lifetime - just needing service or an adjustment every now and then.  Products now are designed to be replaced every few years - its part of a business plan that also downplays service when they will have a new one to offer you when your current one breaks.      Funny how that is - I live in an old victorian house.  People said it would be expensive with all the old things that would need fixing.  But actually its the opposite...  all the old things, light fixtures, etc. just keep going, but all the new stuff breaks every few years and has to be replaced.  Makes me angry because the cost of the parts is cheap the time and effort to replace stuff is not. I'd rather pay more for something that lasts.

Love my Rollei's for this.  My TLR keeps working like new and its a lot older than I am. Plus all of their cameras can be serviced.  Same for the Linhof's.   I would have said that for the Leica too but the DMR already not so sure, but the older ones are fine.  I kind of love the old stuff for all that.
Logged
Authorized Rolleiflex Dealer:
Find product information, download user manuals, or purchase online - Rolleiflex USA

woof75

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 581
Re: Hasselblad no longer servicing H3D (or earlier) digital backs
« Reply #45 on: August 11, 2013, 04:50:14 PM »

Who cares, the H3D is a disastrous, I'd say unusable system with horrible skin tones. Just get a D600 already. (and yes, I've used almost everything on the market)
Logged

Nick-T

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 462
Re: Hasselblad no longer servicing H3D (or earlier) digital backs
« Reply #46 on: August 11, 2013, 05:43:40 PM »

Who cares, the H3D is a disastrous, I'd say unusable system with horrible skin tones. Just get a D600 already. (and yes, I've used almost everything on the market)

This is a stunningly ill-informed comment. Are you suggesting that all the H3D cameras with both Dalsa and Kodak chips produce horrible skin tones? That doesn't make any sense.

There are 1000's of photographers shooting people with these cameras are you suggesting that none of them have noticed that they are using disastrous/unusable cameras with horrible skin tones?

 ???

woof75

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 581
Re: Hasselblad no longer servicing H3D (or earlier) digital backs
« Reply #47 on: August 12, 2013, 07:06:32 AM »

Yes, maybe I spoke a little rashly. However, the skin tones are so red, it struggles with anyone who isn't whiter than white.
Logged

ErikKaffehr

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10124
    • Echophoto
Re: Hasselblad no longer servicing H3D (or earlier) digital backs
« Reply #48 on: August 12, 2013, 07:16:36 AM »

Hi,

Which raw converter did you use?

Best regards
Erik


Yes, maybe I spoke a little rashly. However, the skin tones are so red, it struggles with anyone who isn't whiter than white.

woof75

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 581
Re: Hasselblad no longer servicing H3D (or earlier) digital backs
« Reply #49 on: August 12, 2013, 08:41:44 AM »

Hasselblads own software.
Logged

Douglas Fairbank

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 52
  • Retired Hasselblad service technician
    • Classic V
Re: Hasselblad no longer servicing H3D (or earlier) digital backs
« Reply #50 on: August 12, 2013, 08:56:37 AM »

Do you have the latest version (2.7.4) and are you 100% sure that there are no adjustments being applied to the imported images, it's very easy to overlook.
Logged
Douglas Fairbank LRPS

woof75

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 581
Re: Hasselblad no longer servicing H3D (or earlier) digital backs
« Reply #51 on: August 12, 2013, 09:09:48 AM »

Yep, I did very extensive tests, Hasselblads skin tones are just kind of red. Also, as a camera I just didn't get on with it, actually, I've never hated a camera more. I owned it for about 2 weeks, sold it, lost 2 thousand dollars on it when I sold it and I was still super happy because I didn't own it anymore. Bought a Nikon D600 and was shocked at how good the files are. Couple that together with an massively better shooting experience and you can see why Hasselblad are struggling.
N.B. I have always previously shot Medium format phase backs and Leica M9's which used to be superior until this latest generation of Nikons came out.
Logged

TMARK

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1841
Re: Hasselblad no longer servicing H3D (or earlier) digital backs
« Reply #52 on: August 12, 2013, 09:10:32 AM »

Exactly.



I think a lot of older stuff was designed to last a lifetime - just needing service or an adjustment every now and then.  Products now are designed to be replaced every few years - its part of a business plan that also downplays service when they will have a new one to offer you when your current one breaks.      Funny how that is - I live in an old victorian house.  People said it would be expensive with all the old things that would need fixing.  But actually its the opposite...  all the old things, light fixtures, etc. just keep going, but all the new stuff breaks every few years and has to be replaced.  Makes me angry because the cost of the parts is cheap the time and effort to replace stuff is not. I'd rather pay more for something that lasts.

Love my Rollei's for this.  My TLR keeps working like new and its a lot older than I am. Plus all of their cameras can be serviced.  Same for the Linhof's.   I would have said that for the Leica too but the DMR already not so sure, but the older ones are fine.  I kind of love the old stuff for all that.
Logged

TMARK

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1841
Re: Hasselblad no longer servicing H3D (or earlier) digital backs
« Reply #53 on: August 12, 2013, 09:19:53 AM »

I kinow its off topic and someone will get mad, but:  did you look at the D600 versus the D800? The D800, while a beautiful file, is choking my workflow.  I wonder if teh D600 is like a scaled down D800 in terms of IQ.  I've looked all over and haven't seen anything convincing one way or another.

And to keep it MF and Hasselblad:  The old V lenses are incredible on the D800 if your stylle allows for slow shooting.  I usually use the 150 and 80 for portraits, but I slapped on a 50mm c and loved it.  Smooth and sharp at teh same time, not aggresive like a modern lens.

As to the H3D-39, I've seen very nice files out of it, really nice skin tones.  Your H probably needed service, but oh yeah, they aren't servicing them anymore. 

I like the M9 files better than the D800, but its just taste.  They feel less digital to me. 

Yep, I did very extensive tests, Hasselblads skin tones are just kind of red. Also, as a camera I just didn't get on with it, actually, I've never hated a camera more. I owned it for about 2 weeks, sold it, lost 2 thousand dollars on it when I sold it and I was still super happy because I didn't own it anymore. Bought a Nikon D600 and was shocked at how good the files are. Couple that together with an massively better shooting experience and you can see why Hasselblad are struggling.
N.B. I have always previously shot Medium format phase backs and Leica M9's which used to be superior until this latest generation of Nikons came out.
Logged

woof75

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 581
Re: Hasselblad no longer servicing H3D (or earlier) digital backs
« Reply #54 on: August 12, 2013, 09:28:47 AM »

I kinow its off topic and someone will get mad, but:  did you look at the D600 versus the D800? The D800, while a beautiful file, is choking my workflow.  I wonder if teh D600 is like a scaled down D800 in terms of IQ.  I've looked all over and haven't seen anything convincing one way or another.

And to keep it MF and Hasselblad:  The old V lenses are incredible on the D800 if your stylle allows for slow shooting.  I usually use the 150 and 80 for portraits, but I slapped on a 50mm c and loved it.  Smooth and sharp at teh same time, not aggresive like a modern lens.

As to the H3D-39, I've seen very nice files out of it, really nice skin tones.  Your H probably needed service, but oh yeah, they aren't servicing them anymore. 

I like the M9 files better than the D800, but its just taste.  They feel less digital to me. 


I have heard the D800 files are a little digitally over sharpened as a default. Maybe that is making them look digital? I didn't test the D800. I really didn't want more resolution than the D600 because of workflow issues and shooting ease and speed.
Logged

RomanN.

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 395
Re: Hasselblad no longer servicing H3D (or earlier) digital backs
« Reply #55 on: August 21, 2013, 08:52:06 AM »

to H3d39- I use this back as a back up and it is a great back. It works at longer exposures better than my leaf aptus 12 and the all over quality of the files is like 5x7 inch film. OK, phase 45 can much longer exposures but I never need more. Anyway is the same chip as phase one 45 and the H3d Body has great AF. One thing: the finder makes allways problems- the contact were changed but something wrong with the software...The red cast problem of the H3D can be solved for about 700 euro, after the service the back give great and natural skin color.
The H - backs have problems when used on tech cam with copal shutters- my back can only be used till1/15 sek, at 1/60  the image quality is horrible- only kapture one cable could resolve this synchronisation problem, cost 300 USD, but when used in field with centerfilter I neved need faster times.
If backs like H3d39 becomes so cheap it will be an option to buy one as a back up, even when it can not be repaired.
I would agree that the digital technology is nothing for a longer time period: cameras like Linhof Technika works great even after 50 years, all parts can be changed to new. All mechanical parts can be repaired, thats no problem, but how to repair a electronic part?
Even the digital leica can be serviced as long leica get the parts from china, were all electronic parts are made.
It would be interesting when there would exist a company like in the car industry that made parts for cameras- not only mechanical parts like lens boards, adapters, filters ..- but electronic like mainboards ect...
Logged

ericgibaud

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13
Re: Hasselblad no longer servicing H3D (or earlier) digital backs
« Reply #56 on: September 02, 2013, 02:19:35 PM »

I understand not everything can be maintained and repaired for ever.... but, in the case on MF backs, there is a marketing strategy involved and Hasselblad seems to forget about it. Very few of us start in the MF world buying a DF+ and a IQ180 (or any brand equivalent).... most of us start with a second hand something and then.... if we can afford it and like it, we will consider changing cameras, backs or both. Who would take the risk of spending US$5000 or more in something that may be not repaired if it fails???? not many people. This means that manufacturer loses this "affordable learning school" of future new material buyers and also loses the possibility to see people upgrading material if they do not succeed reselling their camera / back for enough money.... I am sure a healthy and "future secure investment" second hand market makes Hasselblad (and Leica in this price and product philosophy) sell a lot more new material than if old gear meant possibly dead gear.
Logged

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 14720
Re: Hasselblad no longer servicing H3D (or earlier) digital backs
« Reply #57 on: September 02, 2013, 03:15:40 PM »

I understand not everything can be maintained and repaired for ever.... but, in the case on MF backs, there is a marketing strategy involved and Hasselblad seems to forget about it. Very few of us start in the MF world buying a DF+ and a IQ180 (or any brand equivalent).... most of us start with a second hand something and then.... if we can afford it and like it, we will consider changing cameras, backs or both. Who would take the risk of spending US$5000 or more in something that may be not repaired if it fails???? not many people. This means that manufacturer loses this "affordable learning school" of future new material buyers and also loses the possibility to see people upgrading material if they do not succeed reselling their camera / back for enough money.... I am sure a healthy and "future secure investment" second hand market makes Hasselblad (and Leica in this price and product philosophy) sell a lot more new material than if old gear meant possibly dead gear.



Aren't you trying to apply the film camera ethic in a digital world?

Film cameras would work for decades if you treated them right; they were always valid for the work and it was film itself that improved or not. Without film, it's all in the gift of camera and sensor manufacturers, and they change (improve...) all the time. It's become the hardware, in essence, that's the new problem that keeps getting solved, over and over again.

And high numbers are a very seductive selling aid.

DMF cameras are really out of and over the old MF camera demographics price barriers. To buy new and good today, you have got to be pretty comfortably off, have a very good business or be quite crazy; crazy helps. It often does.

Rob C

Bernd B.

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 265
Re: Hasselblad no longer servicing H3D (or earlier) digital backs
« Reply #58 on: September 02, 2013, 05:59:27 PM »

I do own a H3D39 with seven lenses and I donīt think this is good news.

I bought the body with the 80mm second hand for 18.000,- EUR by the end of 2007. I like the camera for its image quality. Few problems with skin tones.

I must say I am really shocked. You just donīt expect to hear something like this. Makes me loose a lot of confidence in the company.

Bernd
Logged

ericgibaud

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13
Re: Hasselblad no longer servicing H3D (or earlier) digital backs
« Reply #59 on: September 02, 2013, 06:00:01 PM »

Well Rob, I think that you are only partly right seeing that there are some Nikon D70 still running perfectly... so electronic goods don't always die that fast

I think that when prices are that high, maintaining camera parts available for many years should be part of a strategy. If my 5D MKII stops working tomorrow and cannot be fixed, I'll buy another US$2000+ slr..... but if a US$15.000 digital back stops working, even if I want, I may not be able to pay for it when needed and will just step of the MF wagon.... MF manufacturer will have lots a client probably for ever.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2013, 06:02:58 PM by ericgibaud »
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4   Go Up