Z3100 Carriage PCA Problem

[Ian99]

Does anyone have any thoughts on this problem with a lightly used HP Z3100 24”.

I am getting the error code 02.1:10 which indicates a problem with the Carriage PCA.

Following the service manual I have replaced the Carriage Printed Circuit Board, the Trailing Cable, the Encoder Strip, and the Encoder Sensor. I still have the same error message.

I am located in Toronto, which does have some impact on my economic alternatives. HP Parts are very fast with the parts they carry (not the Trailing Cable), but Service is very poor as far as I can tell. I do not want to switch to Epson due to my history of 3 Epson machines which clogged themselves to death. Canon is very expensive up here, so I am trying to keep my Z3100 working.

I have ordered second replacements for the Carriage Printed Circuit Board and a Trailing Cable from the US.

Any thoughts?? 

[Ernst Dinkla]

On a Z3200 I only replaced the carriage board (and belt) and the printer works without issues. I wonder whether a connection between trailing cable and mainboard could be your problem as anything beyond that is replaced. Or there could be an issue with the inkjet heads connections flat cables that start from the carriage board.

--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
July 2013, 500+ inkjet media white spectral plots.

[Ian99]

Thanks Ernst.
I was hoping for some of your brilliant insights into printer issues and it might just be that the cables are seating poorly. I will have the chance to re-seat everything when the new Carriage Printed Circuit Board and Trailing Cable arrive.

In the interim, I am going to probe elsewhere.  Following the manual, I replaced the Encoder Sensor (hidden to the right of the left spittoon) and then started to wonder just how that part could have any relationship to the Encoder Strip, and it doesn’t.

There must be another encoder sensor in the carriage assembly and I think it is deep down on the left side of the PCA and attached by a 4 conductor copper ribbon cable. This is not the Line Sensor nor the ESP.

There is no mention of it in the service manual nor is there any part number available for it. However, I will remove the whole Carriage Assembly and have a look from the rear side and try to clean it.

Thanks again for your amazing contributions to this site.

[deanwork]

One thing that is worth trying if you haven't already. I once had some kind of error and the HP tech on the phone suggested that I remove the main board and reseat it.

That worked for me. One of the great things about this machine is that you just loosen two hand screws and pull the board out in about 2 minutes. Sometimes over long periods of time that board may work itself a little bit loose and you need to reset the connection.  If you do that made sure the printer is unplugged.

john

[Ernst Dinkla]

Two axis, two encoders. One on the media transport axle, can be an open disc with radial grating and the sensor at the circumference, can be encapsulated. I think the last type is used on the Zs, did not check it. The other encoder sensor is in the head carriage just above the rod bearings. You did clean the encoder strip already at the position where the carriage is when the error is given? The encoder strip must have been removed when you replaced the carriage board.

--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
July 2013, 500+ inkjet media white spectral plots.

[Ian99]

Thanks John. You are referring to the Formatter Board. I removed it and reseated it and the problem remains. It was a good tip and sometimes we have to try all sorts of weird things to make things work.

Ernst, I replaced the encoder on the media transport axle as directed in the HP Service manual (which I think is wrong on this point). I was then going to clean the encoder sensor in the head carriage, which is not mentioned in the manual.

Yes, I have cleaned the Encoder Strip, then I replaced it with a new one. I will report back when I have cleaned the sensor in the head carriage.

[Mark Lindquist]

Is it possible you might have inadvertently broken anything during replacement, such as the rear carriage bushing- a small piece of plastic at the top rear of the carriage assembly, which is easy to do?

Also, it could conceivably have something to do with the ESP sensor, or the belt tension might be too tight.  (Apparently these things can cause the test to fail).

Mirror lens opening and shutting properly?

You could try pressing enter and switching the printer off.  Unplug, wait, then replug and restart.

Have you tried the "power cycle the printer 3 times" deal?

Weird things these machines...

HP keeps the Voodoo to themselves too - somewhat of a black art getting them going again.

Hire a technician, pay the money, and wahla - back in business....

[Ian99]

As the OP, I said I would report back when I had cleaned the sensor in the head carriage.

I am now beyond the 02.1:10 problems and into the 86:11 problems which I suppose is some improvement but I am calling a halt to this whole process. I offer the following as some weak assistance to others who have had the same problems.

1.   Regarding the initial 02.1:10 issue, I have replaced:
      Trailing cable --- twice
      PCA Board --- twice
      Analog encoder sensor
      Encoder Strip
      Two color heads
      Rear Bushing

   So far the cost, before tax, has been roughly $500 for parts and $500 for UPS/Fedex etc.

2.   There is an issue in the Service manual regarding the Trailing Cable (which HP Canada in their wisdom do not carry as a spare part).  The pair of original cables in my Z3100 had the end contacts on opposite sides. By this I mean that the top cable had contacts at one end on the bottom of the ribbon cable and contacts at the top at the other end. 
This is important because the female connecting block on both the Main board and the Carriage board are oriented for contacts in one orientation only. The buff colored bar that pushes into the connector only works properly in one orientation.

The problem arises in that one Chinese supplier of a replacement pair of Trailing Cables had contacts on the same sides, not on opposite sides, so it could not be oriented properly on the two boards.

The problem is exacerbated, by the fact that the Service Manual shows the PCA end of the Trailing Cable being folded over in a 90 degree corner in order to fit into the connectors. My original cable folded UNDER in 90 degrees.

EDIT:  Brain burp in process!! It does not matter which way you fold the trailing cable the orientation stays the same.

I do not know which is correct, but it is crappy design, and anyone replacing these cables should copy the folds on their original cables.

3.   Talking about crappy design, let us take a look at the ribbon cables attached to the PCA board. There are 11 of them with 5 different methods of retaining the cable to the base connector. They are diabolically difficult to work with, and in a previous life I would have fired any designer who created this mess.

4.   The service manual suggests that after replacing the Trailing Cable and PCA board, the next thing to look at is the “Encoder Sensor”. Well that is OK except that there are two of them and the manual refers to the Analog Sensor at the left hand side of the machine which senses rotation of the Media Advance Roller.
That cannot have anything to do with the problem and I am sure they were referring to the other sensor hidden inside the carriage Assembly. But that part is not referred to in the Service manual and it is not available as a separate part item. For those with an interest, this Encoder Sensor carries the following description:  AVAGO 52  H9720 P 0646.

In any case a new analog sensor and a fully cleaned Carriage Encoder Sensor did not cure the problem.

5.   I did have a problem with the right Service Station.
   One of the sources of mystery in this whole project has been the instructions to “loosen the T-10 uncapping screw sufficiently so you can manually move the Carriage Assembly”.

Of course I did that but it is very awkward and nothing seems to happen. That is because on my machine the T-10 should have been a 2.5 mm Allen key, then it moves slowly.

The initial efforts to release the Carriage Assembly managed to rip the traces from two color heads and to also pull the ink pad whats-it up from it’s plastic retainer.

Specifically missing from the Service Manual is the procedure for reversing all of this during an install. Do you tighten up the T-10/2.5mm screw or not??  One person with a good YouTube video suggests you do not. You just leave it wherever it ends up.
I do not know the real answer.

6.   The Rear Bushing has a very flimsy flat spring and it broke during one of the re-assemblies. For the cost of it ($13-18) I suggest replacing it whenever you take the carriage off to do a belt change.


That is the end of my 02.1:10 comments and I hope it helps someone.

Now regarding the next issue, the 86:11 problem. Normally this is a scan-axis issue and usually caused by a paper or other foreign object in the carriage path. Not here, so carrying on my numbering system….:

7.   The carriage head moves freely along the scan-axis spindle. On booting up, the printer enters initialization, the carriage jerks about 0.5 cm to the right then left and stops with the error code 86.11.

8.   Removing the belt from the scan-axis motor so that there is no load on the motor, the motor spindle exhibits the same symptoms  -- a brief rotation left then right and it stops with the same error code. The belt is properly tensioned and oriented and is only 3 months old. The encoder strip is new and clean and is located correctly in the carriage.
Examination of the circuit boards at both sides of the machine does not show any loose connections or misplaced items.


That is the end of my monolog on this printer and I have had enough.
My thanks go to Ernst, John, and Mark.

Now, if there is any entrepreneurial Canon salesman following this thread I invite them to send me a PM.

Ian

[Mark Lindquist]

Weird things these machines...

HP keeps the Voodoo to themselves too - somewhat of a black art getting them going again.

Hire a technician, pay the money, and wahla - back in business....

Man, Ian, I am soooo sorry you have had such a tough time with this.  I tried to warn you at the end of my last post, but by then you were too deep into it to let go.  Ultimately, If you had paid a technician and whatever they had asked to fix it, you would have been waaaaay ahead.  I think that is the lesson here.  Any of these machines are difficult at best, documentation is poor and there is always much more going on then meets the eye.  Unless you have a lot of experience with fixing things, (more to the point, these kinds of printers) it's a crap-shoot at best if they will get going again, not to mention stay going.

I listened to some sage advice from my 38 year old son, when I told him the belt had gone out on my Z3100 and I was getting an error message.

"Get a new Z3200ps, bite the bullet, and just keep working".  Even when I argued that I could fix the Z3100 if I had the time, he said, "what's more important, to spend the money , to try to fix the unfixable, or to just work with a newer and better printer and continue working?"

Ultimately, that's what I have done.  I've been blissfully enjoying my Z3200ps which is so much better in so many ways than the Z3100, and the old Z is in the corner covered with a sheet, and is calling to me to be repaired.

After reading of your experiences, I am NOT going to fix it or try to fix it myself.  Screw that.  Going to make a nice 44" wide print of canvas, and thank my lucky stars what happened to you, did not happen to me.

Don't get me wrong - I was pissed, literally pissed at HP for these design flaws you speak of, and it kept me from working for over a year with that machine.  As much as I abhor what happened to you, just consider that all of them have problems, and they all go bad sooner or later.

But NONE of them have the embedded spectrophotometer, and the ink drip system, the Vivera Inkset, and several other advantages that the Z3200ps has.

Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater, is my advice.  Give them another chance once you're over being pissed.  I did and I'm really glad I did.  The Z3200ps is a fantastic printer.  Just fantastic.

Again, I feel for you.  Sorry for your pain, and I know how it hurts, brother do I know it.

-Mark

[Ernst Dinkla]

Ian,

Bad luck and it could go down to a mainboard being corrupted that adds another $1000 or so.
I just had more luck with issues like that. With the increasing complexity of your problems I can not help you. What you describe about the 11 flat cables, the Allen key, yes I encountered that too when I replaced the head carriage board. Except that I replaced only the board and the belt, so what had to fit where was easier. And I did the ribbon cable connection in the carriage 3x on some before I was sure enough they were really making a connection.

--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
July 2013, 500+ inkjet media white spectral plots.

[Ian99]

This is an update on my Z3100 problems.

Being tight fisted, although I fancied a new Canon, I located a Z3100 owned by a rich amateur that had not been used for 3 years (according to the internal log).

I bought it for peanuts, changed the belt (I am now quite skilled at Carriage Assembly removal), swapped in new ink cartridges and heads. After 7 head cleanings, everything seems to be working fine and I have just run off 200 feet of salable product.

I also have the old machine with a large number of potentially good parts in it.

Thanks to all who offered advice and comment.
That should close off this thread.

Ian