Linhof 617sIII Lens Flare in Canyons - Need Advice / Help

[MauiPhoto]

I recently did a shoot around the southwest with my Linhof 617sIII panoramic and Linhof 90.  I used the Schneider center filter and a B+W MRC polarizer. All exposures were around 30 seconds to 2.5 minutes at f16 or f22.

On half my images I got a terrible magenta lens flare on the transparencies.  Camera was pointed slightly upward in some of the images but the sky was never actually in the image.   See attached images!

Is this actually lens flare?  What can I do to prevent this flare next time?  Could it be a bigger lens or filter issue?  Do they make lens hoods for panoramic cameras? 

All feedback / help appreciated. Sample images of flare attached.

Thanks,
Q

[Paul2660]

It looks like flare, but also might be condensation/fogging.  Which Schneider lens?  If it's the SK35 with the CF your outer filter thread is 72mm.  I would invest in the Lee wide angle hood, with at least 1 filter slot.  You can always take the 1 Lee slot off but can't go the other way (buy the hood with no filter slots). 

Lee wide angle hood with the 72mm wide angle adapter ring works great on all my lenses, expect the 28mm rodenstock (since I use the Rodenstock CF).  You can get about 12mm of shift with the hood on with the SK35 before you start to vignette. 

The Lee wide angle hood also have a front mount where you can place a 105mm CL-PL.  This still will give you about 10mm of shift before you hit the edge of the 105mm filter.

Paul Caldwell

[MauiPhoto]

Thanks Paul. The lens was the Schneider Linhof Super Angulon 90mm f5.6 panoramic.

The images are all 6x17 panos, I just took quick crops off the slides with my iphone.  I was thinking about a hood, but I need one that will work for panoramic images without cropping.
 
Does the Lee wide angle hood work on the 617?  Could the magenta spots be cause by something else besides lens flare?

[Paul2660]

I overlooked the format size, but actually you might get by with a standard hood, not need the ultra wide.  It should work fine.  On the flare, ghosting, for flare it's a bit foggy, does make you wonder if it's something in the processing.  I can't help there, been way too long for me on fuji film.

Hopefully Torger might see this and add some advice.   I believe he is pretty familiar with your setup.

Paul Caldwell

[BernardLanguillier]

I used to use a clip mounted in the flash hot shoe of my 4x5 camera. The clip was holding the groung glass cover above the lens so as to reduce flare without clipping the image.

This is much more flexible than a fixed lens hood.

My current solution is to stitch with longer lenses that have much more protective lens hoods, those lenses also typically have smaller front elements which makes them more flare resistant.

Cheers,
Bernard

[Paul Ozzello]

It looks hexagonal so probably lens flare, you say no sky was in the image but were the sun's rays hitting the lens ?

[MauiPhoto]

The sun's rays may have been coming down into the lens from the sky above the canyon.  I was not shooting straight into the sun by any means, but there was most likely some light hitting the front of the polarizer and center filter.

Its strange since some of my canyon photos turned out fine, and others have the magenta flare.

[MauiPhoto]

Has anyone here used a Lee Wide Angle filter holder on a Panoramic camera?

[mtomalty]

Pretty textbook looking flare.
Oftentimes you don't even need the direct sun hitting the front element to cause flare.
Just the presence of a very over-exposed light source,like the top of a slot canyon, could
generate this problem.

I don't believe a typical lenshood would solve the problem in this type of situation.
Using a small flag of sorts on a flexible wire and mounted into the hotshoe or other stable
point would better allow you to move the flag until it is just outside the frame
Positioned farther away from the lens can also work better,at times,as the 'blurred' edge is a little
sharper and can be placed slightly more into the light sources path before creeping into the frame.

Nowadays I more often than not just use my hand. Even tripod mounted long exposures work as you
can usually watch from the lens side and see the light source being flagged as you move your hand
carefully

Mark
www.marktomalty.com

[Paul2660]

The "flare buster" setup works very well also.  Same thing Mark described.  They also make an adapter with two clamps if you don't have a flash bracket. 

http://Rodenstock 3x Aspherical 6x6 loupe

I use one in my night photography to help block the moon. 

Paul Caldwell

[DanielStone]

Thanks Paul. The lens was the Schneider Linhof Super Angulon 90mm f5.6 panoramic.

The images are all 6x17 panos, I just took quick crops off the slides with my iphone.  I was thinking about a hood, but I need one that will work for panoramic images without cropping.
 
Does the Lee wide angle hood work on the 617?  Could the magenta spots be cause by something else besides lens flare?

Yes, but it's best for you to test(and test again, just to make sure) that you know EXACTLY where the maximum amount of coverage(without cropping into the image area itself) is.
On cameras such as the 617/sII/sIII and similar "point and shoot" style cameras with no actual viewfinder(ala SLR style), you have to either guess(usually inaccurate) or TEST(using a ground glass on the film rails(where the film sits when loaded). Linhof offers a ground-glass attachment from the factory, which is great for this purpose, alone(amongst other things too).

Of course flare is something that can, at times, NOT be avoided at all. Simple backlighting of a subject from a hard/point specular light source(such as the sun, or a small yet bright reflection(sun off of water).

In your case, I believe that the cause here was light from above(seeing that it is coming from the top edge of the frame, and that's the direction of light in the photographs primarily). Simply holding your hand(or better yet, a black card, say 9x11" or so) to block that light from directly hitting the lens is crucial towards removing/reducing the chance of flare potential.

Has anyone here used a Lee Wide Angle filter holder on a Panoramic camera?

I use a LEE wide angle hood on my 5X7" camera(same long dimension essentially as 6x17), and it works fine for my 90mm-->450mm Fujinon lenses.
Of course, having a ground-glass does aid in proper positioning of the hood.
I do my best to use the hood whenever I make a photograph, as I've had issues with flare myself(even bounced up from the ground(like white sand) into the lens.

On another note, I've found that Nikkor and Fujinon lenses(especially the later EBC-coated ones) are the most flare-resistant LF lenses I've used. Schneiders have been the most problematic w/ flare, then Rodenstocks. Nikkor's and Fuji's have had almost no issues. But the 90XL(assuming that's the one you have, since it's an SIII model?) is a FINE lens, and VERY, VERY sharp. Even when stopped down to F45

cheers,
Dan

[MauiPhoto]

Thank you for all the feedback and replies. Very much appreciated. The learning curve with this kit has been steep!

I will use a card to block light for my next shoot and also get a wide angle lee filter and test it out with the ground glass.

Thanks to all those who have replied!  You guys are great!

Q