HP Zxxxx rumours

[sm906]

Today I had a service technician check some minor issues with my HP Z3200. I told him that it is a pitty that HP has not made anything new to the Z3xxx series and has obviously resigned to be a player in the fine art printing market. He then told me that's not true. HP is preparing a fine art printing successor for the Z3200. He didn't know the details but he was sure that there will be something new in the near future. We'll see...

Thomas

[deanwork]

It wouldn't surprise me. I don't think there is anything wrong with what they've got now. I don't buy into this nonsense that you need to update these printers every 2 years or so.  I can do anything on the Z that I can do on my Canon 8300 and with better permanence and better dmax. All I would ask for is a little more speed, better small sheet feed, and one more gray. Other than that I'm still happy with my 3100 that is still going like new after 6 years of daily use. Oh, and it would be nice if they could make better belts that last longer than 3 years.

john

[shadowblade]

What about better media handling and the ability to print on thicker papers (HP = 0.8mm, Epson = 1.5mm at the moment)? The Z3200's biggest selling point was the greatly-improved gamut in the reds - a few more incremental improvements may make a worthwhile upgrade for those coming from the previous-generation Z3100. Extra greys, smaller droplets (2 picolitres would be good, and a first for large-format printing, even though smaller printers have been doing it for years - sometimes, even large-format printing is about ultimate quality, with no regard for speed) and an preheater/print heater system for better prints on non-coated media.

Basically, the colour gamut at the moment is more than good. The ability to print this colour gamut on a greater variety of media would make it great.

[Mark Lindquist]

How about replaceable carts to allow coatings, like matte or semi-gloss or gloss?  Maybe a tube that goes down into a bucket, LOL.

Do the print, spray the coat at the same time.  Print gets done, ink and coating dries, print winds back up, runs through again with another coat, etc.

Now there's a knife....

[shadowblade]

How about replaceable carts to allow coatings, like matte or semi-gloss or gloss?  Maybe a tube that goes down into a bucket, LOL.

Do the print, spray the coat at the same time.  Print gets done, ink and coating dries, print winds back up, runs through again with another coat, etc.

Now there's a knife....

Wouldn't work. The print needs to outgas for at least 24 hours before you coat it with anything, otherwise you'll get bubbling and other forms of coating failure.

[deanwork]

I don't know 350 gsm is about as thick as I ever need, no problem with thick canvas or linen, or thick back lit transparency film here either.

The one thing besides one more light gray that I would really like is bigger ink carts. However, if that made the printer as huge and heavy as my Canon or Epson I could live without that too if I had to.

[shadowblade]

Never had the urge to print on 640gsm paper, or coated aluminium sheet, or ultra-thick custom papers?

I agree 130mL cartridges are tiny for a large-format printer, though. An external bulk ink system feeding into individually-replaceable heads would be nice.

[Ernst Dinkla]

I don't know 350 gsm is about as thick as I ever need, no problem with thick canvas or linen, or thick back lit transparency film here either.

The one thing besides one more light gray that I would really like is bigger ink carts. However, if that made the printer as huge and heavy as my Canon or Epson I could live without that too if I had to.

The Z5200 has the larger carts, size is not increased, just some turbo bulges at the sides.

Not that I think there will be a new Z tot replace the Z3xxx range.

Ernst, op de lei getypt.

[shadowblade]

The Z5200 has the larger carts, size is not increased, just some turbo bulges at the sides.

Not that I think there will be a new Z tot replace the Z3xxx range.

Ernst, op de lei getypt.

It also uses the old inkset, with fewer inks and poor reds.

[Ernst Dinkla]

The dimensions between the Z2100 and Z5200 have not changed and are the same the Z3200 has. There are just more or less cartridge slots in the cartridge chambers. Several other HP CAD models 44" wide of that generation have the same construction with even fewer inks. Larger printer sizes are in the Z6100-Z6200 models with twice the nozzle quantity per channel so a bigger head carriage assembly and more features to allow high speed printing. 8 channels too.

--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
July 2013, 500+ inkjet media white spectral plots.

[KevinMcD]

This would be great news.  I hope the form factor stays the same (or smaller).

[Mark Lindquist]

Wouldn't work. The print needs to outgas for at least 24 hours before you coat it with anything, otherwise you'll get bubbling and other forms of coating failure.

Really.  In your current world, maybe not.  But in my world a technological breakthrough just might.  Like say putting an embedded spectrophotometer in a printer - outrageous at the time, but definitely ground breaking.  I was thinking more of a chemically compatible finish (ground breaking in design) that perhaps fused to the print, not unlike gloss enhancer, but tougher.  Possibly a first coat which hardened by UV light or something and instantly fused.  We're thinking creatively here, right?  You know, think tanking?  Unless dreaming is off the table...

Come to think of it, I have hand rolled glamour gloss II in a special formulation onto prints immediately after printing and then stretched after dry.  I still have the prints and they still look great.  Come to think of it that was 6 years ago, printed with my Z3100 44" and they're still perfect.  I normally let the prints hang for a long time from my Z3200ps 44" printer, now however, since I send them off for stretching.

Just curious, have you ever experimented with coating prints prior to the "24 hour waiting period" coming from your own printer?  BTW are you using Z3100 or Z3200?  (And what size).  Also, how are you coating your prints? (canvas, that is).

Thanks -  Mark

[shadowblade]

Really.  In your current world, maybe not.  But in my world a technological breakthrough just might.  Like say putting an embedded spectrophotometer in a printer - outrageous at the time, but definitely ground breaking.  I was thinking more of a chemically compatible finish (ground breaking in design) that perhaps fused to the print, not unlike gloss enhancer, but tougher.  Possibly a first coat which hardened by UV light or something and instantly fused.  We're thinking creatively here, right?  You know, think tanking?  Unless dreaming is off the table...

It would have to be a new, very different coating, I'd imagine. The problem isn't the spray-on or roll-on protective coating per se - it's the fact that, unless the print has dried thoroughly, it's trapping solvents underneath, which can then evaporate and cause bubbling and peeling.

Bear in mind that I'm talking about paper here, not canvas - I'd imagine canvas is more porous and can outgas from the back.

Come to think of it, I have hand rolled glamour gloss II in a special formulation onto prints immediately after printing and then stretched after dry.  I still have the prints and they still look great.  Come to think of it that was 6 years ago, printed with my Z3100 44" and they're still perfect.  I normally let the prints hang for a long time from my Z3200ps 44" printer, now however, since I send them off for stretching.

I'd imagine canvas would have different outgassing characteristics to paper. Never tried it, though.

Just curious, have you ever experimented with coating prints prior to the "24 hour waiting period" coming from your own printer?  BTW are you using Z3100 or Z3200?  (And what size).  Also, how are you coating your prints? (canvas, that is).

I don't own a printer myself - I just use lots of different printers which are available to me, which pretty much amounts to the same thing. I have both a Z3100 and Z3200 available, both in 44".

Never printed on canvas - IMO the only thing that belongs on canvas is paint...

[Ernst Dinkla]

It would have to be a new, very different coating, I'd imagine. The problem isn't the spray-on or roll-on protective coating per se - it's the fact that, unless the print has dried thoroughly, it's trapping solvents underneath, which can then evaporate and cause bubbling and peeling.

Bear in mind that I'm talking about paper here, not canvas - I'd imagine canvas is more porous and can outgas from the back.

I'd imagine canvas would have different outgassing characteristics to paper. Never tried it, though.

I don't own a printer myself - I just use lots of different printers which are available to me, which pretty much amounts to the same thing. I have both a Z3100 and Z3200 available, both in 44".

Never printed on canvas - IMO the only thing that belongs on canvas is paint...

Outgassing is mainly an issue with RC papers where glycol, glyzerine, water can not escape through the paper back. With matte art papers and canvas no barriers exist and the ink medium components can gradually evaporate through the back when framed. In many cases the varnishes used for canvas are dispersions that do not seal or encapsulate the ink medium components completely and will not get in conflict either with the ink medium components. Matte papers with thin coatings of protection spray in best case seal the print at the front but the glycols etc should already be deeper into the paper. With RC papers one has to be much more careful though if a coating has to be applied.
It is good practice to dry prints some days before coating them but I have yet to see the disasters shadowblade describes when it is not done that way.

--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
July 2013, 500+ inkjet media white spectral plots.

[Mark Lindquist]

I don't own a printer myself - I just use lots of different printers which are available to me, which pretty much amounts to the same thing. I have both a Z3100 and Z3200 available, both in 44".

Never printed on canvas - IMO the only thing that belongs on canvas is paint...

Wow.

[shadowblade]

Wow.

It's a bit like how I don't own a studio, or a house, or even some of my computer equipment, and how I rent MF digital backs when I'm going to use them, rather than buying one - it works out cheaper just to rent them, treat them as a cost-of-living or cost-of-business expense, and invest the difference in something else.

After all, I only personally print special copies for galleries, exhibitions and individual/special works, as well as some special edition prints - I outsource my regular prints, rather than having to deal with all the printing, spraying, drying, packaging and postage myself.

[Mark Lindquist]

It's a bit like how I don't own a studio, or a house, or even some of my computer equipment, and how I rent MF digital backs when I'm going to use them, rather than buying one - it works out cheaper just to rent them, treat them as a cost-of-living or cost-of-business expense, and invest the difference in something else.

After all, I only personally print special copies for galleries, exhibitions and individual/special works, as well as some special edition prints - I outsource my regular prints, rather than having to deal with all the printing, spraying, drying, packaging and postage myself.

Cool.  Sounds interesting.  My "wow" comment was more based on your statement: "Never printed on canvas - IMO the only thing that belongs on canvas is paint...."

We all have our opinions I guess.  Interesting how you personalize things...

I agree about renting digital backs, etc., for special projects that would be the only way to go.  I do a lot of abstracts and it takes shooting gigs and gigs to get what I want in order to get in the proper groove, so I have to keep my camera by my side a great deal of the time, particularly as I do a lot of them in natural light under specific conditions in order to get what I want.

If I was shooting a commercial job, I'd rent a MF camera in a heart beat if that's what was called for.  But a Nikon D3s and an 85 PC lens does just about anything I need and in some cases does better than what some pros with MF cameras have delivered to jobs I was also working on....