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Author Topic: Aerial photography with medium-format cameras: exposure and lens  (Read 7185 times)

Atina

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Could I ask a few questions about aerial photography with medium-format cameras?

What would be the equivalent settings to use to the typical 35 mm ones? If I got it correctly, typical and most recommended way to go about it with a 35 mm digital camera is to put your camera on Aperture Priority, choose the aperture where your lens is at its sharpes, say, around f/4 or f5.6, choose an appropriate ISO, perhaps 400, and aim for a shutter speed of 1/1000 (which is what a median and desirable setting would be, but obviously you can go a little lower, or higher).

So if you have a camera like Hasselblad 6x6, apparently "the best" for this type of job, or a digital camera like Hasselblad H5D-60, how do you translate that?

I see that H5D supports shutters up to 1/800. Here, obviously, shutter speed serves to freeze motion blur so will that be enough and how much lower could you go? The lens for such cameras are supersharp everywhere so what settings would you pick and do these digital cameras have semi-automatic programs?

What about the 6x6, how does the process theoretically go in choosing the correct exposure?

And, ultimately, what sort of lens do you bring with you? Most frequently, but by no means exclusively, I've seen people recommend 24-70 mm and 70-200 mm lens for 35 mm cameras. If you want to photograph buildings, houses, stadiums, what medium-format lens should you use?
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leeonmaui

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Re: Aerial photography with medium-format cameras: exposure and lens
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2013, 05:14:11 pm »

aloha,


Your going to want to use shutter priority not aperture priority.
fixed wide angles will be better, stop them down as much as possible, I don't think they will be sharpest a 4/f

Direction of the shot relative to your motion also has an effect as well as available light.
Vibration can be a bigger problem than apparent motion as the vibration is has a higher frequency and is therefore faster than your relative motion...
Try having someone drive you around and see how your camera and lens choice acts at 60 mph, the bumpier the road the better :-)

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Nick-T

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yaya

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Re: Aerial photography with medium-format cameras: exposure and lens
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2013, 05:08:13 pm »

"Aerial photography" covers a lot of ground si you need to tell us a bit more about your application; between shooting handheld with a DSLR (with or without a giro) all the way to a multi-body iXA based solution there are many different levels of product and cameras

In general, shutter speeds of 1/1,000 or higher are desirable but it also depends on altitude and ground speed, need for FMC (Forward Motion Compensation) etc. etc. etc.

I know a few people who use their digital back on a technical camera handheld with a Copal shutter and there are those (not many) who dod air-to-air flash photography with an MF SLR

Basically the more you tell us about your application the better advice we can provide. We also have sample images form the iXA on the above webpage

BR

Yair
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siebel

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Re: Aerial photography with medium-format cameras: exposure and lens
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2013, 06:04:13 am »

As Yaya says, there are lots of different applications, for which there are many different solutions, at lots of differing price-points.
I am an architectural photographer and from time to time have to shoot buildings from choppers and also cranes. Here are some of my work practices, but remember, they are specific to my particular jobs.
I shoot all my aerials with my MF gear. In recent years, that has meant P65+, Aptus 12 and IQ180 backs on either my DF camera or more commonly, my Alpa STC. I also regularly shoot pseudo-aerials whilst suspended from crane baskets both from hi-rise buildings and from construction barges at sea (oilfields).
From choppers I usually use my 40HR Rodie on the Alpa or my 45 or 55 lenses on the DF. Anything longer is too susceptible to vibration. I always work hand-held, without a giro. I haven't yet found a giro that allows me the flexibility of movement I like. Other shooters wouldn't dream of shooting without a giro.
The type of helo you use is important. Small platforms like the Robinson R22/44 are boneshakers for vibration and with the door off, almost impossible to stay out of the downdraft. I refuse to shoot from them these days. The Bell Jetranger family are better and if you keep your camera high in the cabin, you can get right to the edge of the door and still be out of the downdraft. My faves are the Squirrels and Hughes 500 and all the recent Eurocopters. Stable, low vibration and lots of room to move.
My preferred option is the Alpa STC with the 40HR(downshifted about 12mm) and IQ180. I use it with the Alpa Sync adapter, turned sideways so I can fire with my left thumb. I've shot from choppers with shutter speeds as low as 1/125th, though I prefer to be at 1/500th where there is enough light. I never shoot at apertures wider than f8. When shooting from cranes, I usually use my 23HR handheld, at shutterspeeds as low as 1/15th of a second. Tripods are almost impossible to use in crane baskets due to the fact the basket never stops swinging and rotating, especially if it is windy. The German made cranes are much better than the Chinese ones commonly used in the Middle-East as they transfer less vibration to the basket. Needless to say, you need to have some confidence in the safety of the crane you are about to ride in. I've been up as high as 86 floors in Dubai, which frankly, was nerve wracking. I've also been on sites in India where I have flatly refused to ride their crappy cranes! Whilst this is not really directly a photographic issue, it does have some bearing on ones state of mind and therefore ability to perform creatively. It's hard to do great pictures when you are terrified! At sea, when the crane is mounted to the deck of a barge that is rolling on an ocean swell, the game is usually quite tricky as the basket is always swinging. On my last shoot at sea, the position of my basket was shifting about 10m relative to my subject and I could only shoot one frame at the end of each arc, when the basket was relatively still.
There are several examples of these images on my website, www.bryansiebel.com
Cheers!

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gerald.d

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Re: Aerial photography with medium-format cameras: exposure and lens
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2013, 08:42:00 am »

It's worth checking out this recent post from ALPA where a TC has been mounted to a remote controlled hexacopter.

http://www.alpa.ch/en/news/2013/the-alpa-12-gets-airborne

Very cool remote trigger mechanism - I'd love one of these!

Kind regards,

Gerald.
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Atina

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Re: Aerial photography with medium-format cameras: exposure and lens
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2013, 05:45:07 pm »

Well, I imagined a lot of things, but not that Yair Shahar would reply to my thread.

I am actually most interested in shooting architecture and landscapes from the air.

So in that respect I presume that a camera such as iXA is not something I would use because that is more of a camera for mapping? Or I got that all wrong?

Just like I said in the first post, and now after reading Bryan's post, I am confused about how you can translate, transform the typical settings for a 35 mm digital camera, as listed above, into a medium-format system. Especially now that Bryan says he never goes below f/8, which I'm not sure I see why considering that for the lens for the Hasselblad I talked about sharpness is a non-issue. Futhermore, bigger aperture means faster shutter speeds. Though apparently limited to 1/800 for Hasselblad and I don't know if that is enough.
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Camdavidson

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Re: Aerial photography with medium-format cameras: exposure and lens
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2013, 08:16:23 am »

Atina,

Yair pointed out to me that you found my blog post about shooting the Alpa with the Gyroscope.

If I was starting out in MF and shooting aerials, my ideal platform would be:  A Phase One/Mamiya camera with either the Credo 60 or IQ 260 back coupled with a Kenyon KS-6x6 gyroscope.  Or - the Alpa TC with the 40mm Rodegon.

The advantage to the Phase/Mamiya camera is being able to see the effects of a polarizer and faster glass when shooting in lower light.  I shoot my aerials primarily with a Nikon D800 and prime lenses plus the Alpa TC. For many years, I used the Hasselblad H system with either a KS-8 Gyroscope or the newer KS-4x4.

This image was shot with a H2, 80mm, Aptus 75, Kenyon KS-8 Gyroscope and from an AStar helicopter: http://www.camerondavidson.com/-/galleries/aerial/-/medias/077c9e2c-3a61-11e2-a4a5-afdb89683566-california

This one was for a editorial feature was shot with a P30 and a Mamiya camera from a Robinson R44 and a KS-6 gyroscope. http://www.camerondavidson.com/-/galleries/aerial/-/medias/f9eea606-3a60-11e2-a4ad-a71a2846386a-vanity-fair-anne-bass-estate 

The D800, especially the E version combined with prime lenses and the Kenyon gyroscopes is a very real alternative (IMO) to medium format for aerials.  This was shot last spring in West Texas from an Enstrom F-28 using the D800 and a Nikon 24mm f/1.4 lens.

http://www.camerondavidson.com/-/galleries/aerial/-/medias/7e598726-3a61-11e2-bba0-fb68c7eb1e54-fort-davis-texas

The thing is:  Complexity in the air gets in the way of thinking and operating clearly.  It is best to simplify as much as possible.  I found the Hassy's were slow when combined with my ancient Aptus 75.  When I shot the Alpa, the rhythm of cocking the shutter on the 47 and releasing was just about the right amount of time for the back to recycle. 

Regarding aircraft:  The most important factor is the pilot and hours in type and experience with photography.  I will not fly in an R22 but will fly in R44's (especially the RAVEN II version) with a pilot with years of aerial experience.  Hope this helps.  If you need additional information, please feel free to ask here or via a PM.







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gerald.d

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Re: Aerial photography with medium-format cameras: exposure and lens
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2013, 01:12:51 am »

I was just wondering what the pros/cons of a gyro such as the Kenyons vs a gimbal system similar to the Movi (when shooting stills).

I've got a lot of helicopter time coming up, and am looking to invest in one of the other, but don't really know where to start.

Kind regards,

Gerald.
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Camdavidson

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Re: Aerial photography with medium-format cameras: exposure and lens
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2013, 06:46:12 am »

The Movi "The Game Changer" as some would say is great for video and horizontal stills.  However, the Kenyon Gyro's are designed for vertical and horizontal images.  I would not use a MOVI for medium format aerials.
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gerald.d

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Re: Aerial photography with medium-format cameras: exposure and lens
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2013, 09:57:49 am »

Thanks Cameron, and for your PM. Much appreciated.

Kind regards,

Gerald.
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Atina

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Re: Aerial photography with medium-format cameras: exposure and lens
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2013, 09:20:40 am »

Thank you, Cameron, so much for the kind reply and your generous offer for help! And a big thank you to Yair, who let you know about the inquiry.

At first, before this whole thread and the advice, I was thinking about attaching something to Rollei's Rolleiflex Hy6 Mod2. If I read correctly, Phase One doesn't support Hy6 yet. But after your recommendation and years of experience in the business, I'll stick to Mamiya/Phase One.

Just to make sure, the Rodagon lens you mentioned: you were referring to the Rodagon-WA 40 mm f/4?

I love your images... Just today I discovered the Recent Projects part of your portfolio and the photos are stunning.

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yaya

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Re: Aerial photography with medium-format cameras: exposure and lens
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2013, 10:14:19 am »

Thank you, Cameron, so much for the kind reply and your generous offer for help! And a big thank you to Yair, who let you know about the inquiry.

At first, before this whole thread and the advice, I was thinking about attaching something to Rollei's Rolleiflex Hy6 Mod2. If I read correctly, Phase One doesn't support Hy6 yet. But after your recommendation and years of experience in the business, I'll stick to Mamiya/Phase One.

Just to make sure, the Rodagon lens you mentioned: you were referring to the Rodagon-WA 40 mm f/4?

I love your images... Just today I discovered the Recent Projects part of your portfolio and the photos are stunning.



Atina if you are considering going the Hy6 route then you should know that Leaf backs support the platform and come in 56, 60 and 80 MP models: Credo 60/80 and AFi-II 10/12. There are no plans to support the platform with Phase One backs

Personally I think that the higher shutter speed on the Mamiya 645DF+ is a big advantage; 1/1600 with the leaf shutter lenses or 1/4,000 when using the focal plane shutter

Enjoy the journey and looking forward to seeing some images, whichever camera you choose!

Yair
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