Color Problems - NEC P221W Display

[MarkM]

Mark,

It is the same on both. Where the problem only occurs is when I transfer photos from the desktop with the NEC monitor to the laptop with the ICC profile embedded. If I remove the ICC profile then the photos are not over saturated but may be very slightly desaturated but that could be the difference in screen since everything looks better on the NEC. 

Roberta

Hi Roberta, your answer wasn't really clear—does the image looked the same on both you laptop and desktop or the same when you moused over the image? 

[Roberta Frederick]

Here's the verdict: Looking at the photos in both Firefox and Safari on both computers at the same time and with the desktop in sRGB emulation - there is a difference on the laptop but perhaps not huge like it would be if the flower was red.

On the desktop-no difference between the three in Firefox but there is a slight difference between Safari and Firefox- the colors are very slightly more saturated in Safari. It is my understanding that Firefox has better color management than Safari but not sure about that - I do see a small difference though.

On the laptop-in Firefox - sRGB is more saturated (but not to the point that I would say OMG it is just more saturated and if I wasn't doing a comparison I might think it was fine). There are some pinks or reds in the background that show more color too. Those pinks/reds are not terribly saturated but that background color does not show up on the desktop with as much strength. The flower listed as aRGB is less saturated than the previous one but more saturated than the final one, ProPhoto. The ProPhoto looks closest to the photos on the desktop. In Safari on the laptop not a huge difference between the two browsers.

I went to my friend's house earlier so I didn't have a chance to see the sunflowers on his computer. On Flickr using his iMac all of the photos I posted with the tomatoes look pretty much the same. (I think the color on his machine may be slightly more saturated than on my desktop and the NEC but the color of the tomatoes look normal just a bit more pop to the color. His iMac has not been calibrated with a device and I believe he said he has not calibrated in a while.) On my laptop viewing the same photos on Flickr, the ones without the embedded profile look less saturated almost normal but a little too desaturated. I also took those same photos on a thumb drive and we opened them in Preview on his desktop. They all look the same. On my laptop opening them in Preview, those with the embedded profile are very over saturated and those without are desaturated - exactly as they appear on Flickr from my laptop.

I wrote my Flickr friend to see whether she was still using her NEC and still having the same problem. She said she is using Vista as her operating system. This is her partial reply:

"Yes, I am still using the NEC monitor but have given up on using the wide gamut option. I use spectraview to calibrate and use the sRGB emulation mode with the white point set at D65. If I save out of photoshop with the save for web option, the colors seem to be fine, or at least I like them. I was using the wide gamut option for a while, and then converting to sRGB for flickr, but decided that it was too much of a hassle. The profile in photoshop is Adobe RGB.

I myself am having lots of trouble with photoshop because I upgraded to CS6 without realizing that it doesn't work well on Vista. One day (soon) I will upgrade the operating system, and hope the problems will go away."

So apparently she is still having a problem as well but has found a work around that satisfies her. I don't particularly want to have to edit in sRGB and go through the steps she is using since I am using Lightroom primarily and by doing that, as has been discussed, I would then be editing to satisfy the laptop, right?

Roberta
 
 

[Roberta Frederick]

Sorry Mark, let's try again - yes it looks the same on both machines but I suspect that is because I was viewing it in Firefox. As I recall the last time I tried rolling over that image in Safari using the laptop there was a difference - so might that be the better color management in Firefox? I will try to go back and do it again.

Roberta

[xpatUSA]

Here's the verdict: Looking at [Teds 3 sunflower] photos in both Firefox and Safari on both computers at the same time and with the desktop in sRGB emulation - there is a difference on the laptop but perhaps not huge like it would be if the flower was red.

On the desktop-no difference between the three in Firefox but there is a slight difference between Safari and Firefox- the colors are very slightly more saturated in Safari. It is my understanding that Firefox has better color management than Safari but not sure about that - I do see a small difference though.

Slight differences are OK and can be expected.

It looks like there is nothing wrong with the desktop computer color management - I'm betting that the NEC could have even been left in wide-gamut mode and those three sunflower images would have still looked OK on the NEC.

On the laptop-in Firefox - sRGB is more saturated (but not to the point that I would say OMG it is just more saturated and if I wasn't doing a comparison I might think it was fine). There are some pinks or reds in the background that show more color too. Those pinks/reds are not terribly saturated but that background color does not show up on the desktop with as much strength. The flower listed as aRGB is less saturated than the previous one but more saturated than the final one, ProPhoto. The ProPhoto looks closest to the photos on the desktop. In Safari on the laptop not a huge difference between the two browsers.

So back to the laptop, what is described seems firstly symptomatic of no color-management in that the embedded profiles are being ignored and the laptop is displaying each images' data via some unknown but constant profile. That is why the saturation gets less when viewing in order of sRGB, aRGB, ProPhoto. Secondly, however, of the three, sRGB is the one that should look right with no color-management but an otherwise correct system monitor profile.

My gut feeling is that, if the laptop could be reverted somehow to it's original default profile, all would come right as rain :-)

So apparently she is still having a problem as well but has found a work around that satisfies her. I don't particularly want to have to edit in sRGB and go through the steps she is using since I am using Lightroom primarily and by doing that, as has been discussed, I would then be editing to satisfy the laptop, right?

Right! Is the laptop essential to your work-flow, may I ask?

[Roberta Frederick]

Okay, here's where it is right now - I messed about quite a bit with ColorSync. Did a factory reset - bleh! Then messed around a little more. Wound up using a manual calibration where I guessed at the settings using a setting called "Color LCD Calibrated" within System Preferences under the "color" tab within Displays. Now I am close - not exactly like the NEC and probably a bit less vibrancy but no gross red. Your sunflowers match better. I tried using the Xrite iOne a couple of times more but something seems to be going on with that thing or the laptop doesn't like it - dunno what the issue might be. It seems to calibrate okay one time and then makes a mess the next. I probably need to fine tune the calibration a little but for the time being and for present it will certainly do.

My laptop is pretty old (2008) and I've been sort of holding it together with baling twine and duct tape for a while (not literally but that is the way it feels at times.) I've had problems with this laptop from the start and thanks to Apple Care it has had many parts replaced - they even replaced the keyboard and took care of a couple of other issues after it was out of Apple Care because they were the same old problems. It was my posting to the web and downloading from the web work horse though until very recently. I had really poor internet service for years because I live in a rural area and there wasn't much available. Only a week ago I was able to make a change to my service. Previously I often I had to go a coffee shop in town to be able to use my laptop to load my photos, etc. because of the data limits imposed by my internet service. In the past I have seldom used the desktop computer to go online. The laptop is more convenient in many ways because I am not tethered to my desk as with the other one. The thing that was frustrating is that I was uncertain how my photos were actually appearing on the web. I actually thought what I saw on the laptop was what others saw. Bottom line, the laptop is no longer essential. It is due for replacement I am sure but I don't want to do that until I'm forced to do so because of the cost. I feel so much better about the whole thing now though because you and the others here have helped me sort this thing out. Perhaps all of this will prove helpful to someone else as well. I am very grateful for the help I've received.

Tony, if you see this I am going to watch all of those videos. I am certain I can learn a lot.

Regards,

Roberta

[Tony Jay]

...Tony, if you see this I am going to watch all of those videos. I am certain I can learn a lot.

That's great Roberta. The fidelity of the information cannot be beat even if the style of presentation is not your style. I promise you, you will learn a lot. Tony Jay

[xpatUSA]

Now I am close - not exactly like the NEC and probably a bit less vibrancy but no gross red. Your sunflowers match better.

Excellent!

My laptop is pretty old (2008) . . . .  I had really poor internet service for years because I live in a rural area and there wasn't much available.

I know the feeling, we're miles aways from the nearest fiber-optic phone line. We use Hughes satellite Internet - 100Kb/sec on a good day. My stuff is old too - I run it until it dies or a desirable new app won't run. Still on Windows XP, Elements 6, early Sigma DSLR housebrick cameras. That sunflower was a snapshot taken with a Sigma SD10 in LO res (0.8MP binned pixels) and it is my gamut and profile testing image, so to speak.

Anyhow, well done and glad to have helped.