Vinyl/Pigment Durability

[Keithw1975]

We occasionally print adhesive and scrim vinyl for outdoor use on our Epson pigment printers. We coat them with Clearstar laminate that we spray on. I did one banner though without any coating and mounted it to the south side of a building. It only had red type on it and after the first year it looked pretty good, but by the second year it was faded so badly that it was almost unreadable. I have another one that I am still testing that was coated with the Clearstar and it has a blue logo on it with some graduations. It is 3 years old and still looks almost new. No noticeable fading so far.

What I have found though is that the majority of the banners we have sold never make it more than a year so the fading doesn't really matter. What seems to kill them is the customer failing to secure them and then they beat themselves to death in the wind and actually destroy the vinyl. We recently had a customer call us and say that the banner we had printed 3 months earlier on a SOLVENT PRINTER. Upon inspection it turned out that the banner came loose in a windstorm and had spent a week smacking against a nearby chain link fence.

Hope someone finds this information useful and remember that securing the sign in a solid manner is going to do wonders for it's longevity.

[Ken Doo]

I print banners on canvas using an Epson 9900. A solvent printer would be a better choice if signmaking/banners were a fulltime endeavor.  But coating with BC's Glamour II holds up well in the elements.  The canvas seems to take the brunt of high winds better, using grommet-less hangers. I have banners that have been outside over four years!  The weakest link in terms of ink is yellow, as can be expected.  High winds cause the most damage.

ken

[Garnick]

The weakest link in terms of ink is yellow, as can be expected.  High winds cause the most damage.
ken

I've been printing colour images on various substrates(photographic paper, display transparency film, duratrans, etc.) since the late 60s.  Red has always been and is still the most difficult colour to work with, for various reasons.  Ken's post above is exactly where I was going when I first read the OP and he has nailed here as well.  It's my belief that if you were to reprint the red and blue banners and subject them to the elements, both coated and uncoated versions, the red would still be the first to show signs of fading.  Reason...red is a combination of yellow and magenta inks and yellow is the weakest ink we have and the most susceptible to fading.  Just a theory on my part, but I believe a valid one to some extent.

Gary      

[shadowblade]

I've been printing colour images on various substrates(photographic paper, display transparency film, duratrans, etc.) since the late 60s.  Red has always been and is still the most difficult colour to work with, for various reasons.  Ken's post above is exactly where I was going when I first read the OP and he has nailed here as well.  It's my belief that if you were to reprint the red and blue banners and subject them to the elements, both coated and uncoated versions, the red would still be the first to show signs of fading.  Reason...red is a combination of yellow and magenta inks and yellow is the weakest ink we have and the most susceptible to fading.  Just a theory on my part, but I believe a valid one to some extent.

Gary      

Yellow is certainly Epson's weak link, but is that true of every inkset?

Also, some inksets now include a dedicated red ink - if you've used one of those inksets, have you noticed any effect of the additional ink on the longevity of reds?

[Ken Doo]

I think it is just the Epson yellow pigmented ink that is weak compared to other colors.  This is not to say the Epson yellow is bad, but just that this is the weakest of all the pigmented colors on the Epson Ultrachrome K3 HDR inkset.  I've noticed the fading more on pure yellow portions of banners (exposed to extreme weather) than other colors.  Using different rips like Imageprint may increase longevity because of the way it uses different colors in the gamut to print.  But again, this is only under extreme exposure to the weather and elements which definitely speeds up wear and tear---it ain't normal!  A banner displayed outdoors is more likely to be damaged by the wind or bad weather before the inks fade.  A good heavy coat of Glamour II goes a long way in terms of protection from the sun (UV damage) and the elements.  Solvent printers should do better in this regard.

ken

[Keithw1975]

I never considered using canvas for a banner. I might give that a try sometime.

We actually had one client who came to us from another printer for indoor banners. They said they weren't happy with the quality and wanted to see samples of our work. I am assuming the previous printer was using Solvent. He said ours looked fantastic and has been a regular ever since.

[darlingm]

I print banners on canvas using an Epson 9900. A solvent printer would be a better choice if signmaking/banners were a fulltime endeavor.  But coating with BC's Glamour II holds up well in the elements.  The canvas seems to take the brunt of high winds better, using grommet-less hangers. I have banners that have been outside over four years!  The weakest link in terms of ink is yellow, as can be expected.  High winds cause the most damage.

ken

Doesn't Glamour II start to re-liquefy a little / get squishy / turn milky again after having moisture sit on it long enough?  I thought my testing showed it keeps water beading for a while, but after 20-30 minutes did this.  Perhaps I'm remembering something else...

[Ken Doo]

Once Glamour II dries, it's set.  It protects canvasses well.  I've dumped coffee, ice cream, syrup, and even had my son use a stretched canvas with Glamour II as a boogie board in the ocean---and all held up well after rinsing with water and wiping the canvas down.  (no joke) 

If you want to dissolve Glamour II, use a cleaner like 409.