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Author Topic: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?  (Read 116573 times)

dreed

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a hero or a criminal?
« Reply #320 on: July 24, 2013, 01:01:23 AM »

If Snowden have of done nothing then this would never have come about:

House amendment NSA bulk surveillance

So while there may be a few that want to brand Snowden as a criminal, quite clearly there is a substantial number of people that have taken notice of what he's presented the world with and are going forward with that to bring about change, vindicating his choice of action and thus making him a hero.

The above follows on from a Republican Senator standing up and warning people of the future:
Senator Wyden warns data collection under Patriot Act is limitless
« Last Edit: July 24, 2013, 01:05:14 AM by dreed »
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popnfresh

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #321 on: July 24, 2013, 11:31:27 PM »

Cooler heads prevail as the Amash amendment goes down to defeat.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/23/politics/nsa-phone-surveillance-limits/index.html?iref=allsearch
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-Tom-

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #322 on: July 25, 2013, 06:03:17 PM »

I don't care about none of the things Snowden said. The internet should be monitored and everyone behind the computer should be responsible for their actions.

SunnyUK

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #323 on: July 26, 2013, 04:28:25 AM »

I don't care about none of the things Snowden said. The internet should be monitored and everyone behind the computer should be responsible for their actions.

And of course an American ("Policing the world since 1943") agency would be best placed to do that.
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stamper

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #324 on: July 26, 2013, 04:50:30 AM »

One wonders about how many people it would take to monitor the internet. If they found something that wasn't in their opinion "correct" and reported it would they be considered a whistle blower?

dreed

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #325 on: July 26, 2013, 09:41:16 AM »

I don't care about none of the things Snowden said. The internet should be monitored and everyone behind the computer should be responsible for their actions.

... including those in China who would be chastised for simply speaking out against the government?
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Vladimirovich

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #326 on: July 26, 2013, 09:43:16 AM »

One wonders about how many people it would take to monitor the internet.

no worries, they can always outsource that to China  ;)
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BobDavid

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #327 on: July 26, 2013, 10:32:18 AM »

Duh. Spy versus spy has been going on since time immemorial. Whether en masse or 1:1, it is the nature of individuals and nations. What surprises me is how long it has taken so many people to wake up and smell the coffee regarding cyber and telecom semi-surveillance. The Union and the Rebels tapped into each others' telegraph lines. Since the advent of the telephone, wiretapping has been rampant. My only comment about that jerky Snowden kid is that Booz Allen Hamilton didn't do a better job of vetting him. I am actually more concerned about the way big corporations are tracking my movements on the internet. It's no coincidence that I am regularly bombarded with ads from companies I've done business with along with allied companies that I have never heard of. Big business is selling my demographic and psychographic profile to whomever wants to purchase it. If a 29-year-old kid is able to raise so much havoc, I am seriously concerned about the state of our nation's data collection and analysis capabilities.
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Vladimirovich

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #328 on: July 26, 2013, 01:50:19 PM »

Booz Allen Hamilton didn't do a better job of vetting him
you know of course that all checks for that job were done by gov't agencies, not commercial gov't contractor itself...
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popnfresh

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #329 on: July 26, 2013, 05:06:03 PM »

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RSL

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #330 on: July 26, 2013, 05:25:09 PM »

Interesting stuff, Pop, but Booz Allen doesn't do background investigations for high-level security clearances, and it doesn't approve or disapprove them. Considering what Snowden had access to, I'd guess he had to have had a top secret clearance plus a SIGINT compartmented clearance. Unless things have changed an awful lot in the couple decades since I got my clearances, Snowden filled out a multi-page form and gave all sorts of details about his birthplace, residences, schools, jobs, etc. Once the forms were in the hands of the government it took several months for the background investigation to complete. You'd find that agents had talked to your parents, teachers, neighbors, employers and friends. Since we now know a bit about his background it's incredible that he was able to get any sort of clearance, much less top-secret, SIGINT. Somebody in the government really screwed up, or else things have gotten a hell of a lot slacker in the past few years.

popnfresh

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #331 on: July 26, 2013, 05:49:48 PM »

Whoever vetted the guy did a lousy job.
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BobDavid

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #332 on: July 26, 2013, 08:00:08 PM »

Booz Allen noted discrepancies in his resume and still hired him. I'd say they are as much at fault as whatever gov't agency or agencies conducted his background check.
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RSL

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #333 on: July 26, 2013, 09:20:25 PM »

I might agree if I knew more about the details, Bob, but in the end the government is the outfit that decides to whom it will give access to our secrets. Booz Allen made a big mistake by hiring a flake like Snowden, but without government clearance they couldn't have given him access to the stuff he stole. If somebody at Booz did that without Snowden having the proper clearance that person should be in the federal pen right now.

Vladimirovich

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #334 on: July 26, 2013, 09:44:03 PM »

Booz Allen noted discrepancies in his resume and still hired him. I'd say they are as much at fault as whatever gov't agency or agencies conducted his background check.
dear... Booz is just a glorified bodyshop trying to score a placement... the only difference between 'em and some Raj operating from a basement in VA is that Booz is higher up in a food chain and charges more.
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dreed

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #335 on: July 26, 2013, 11:00:15 PM »

I am actually more concerned about the way big corporations are tracking my movements on the internet. It's no coincidence that I am regularly bombarded with ads from companies I've done business with along with allied companies that I have never heard of. Big business is selling my demographic and psychographic profile to whomever wants to purchase it. If a 29-year-old kid is able to raise so much havoc, I am seriously concerned about the state of our nation's data collection and analysis capabilities.

Let me put it another way for you.

You and the data that Google gains from you using the Internet is what it sells to companies that want to advertise.

You provide that information to companies such as Google free of charge.

You give your demographic away to Google and they sell it to other companies, including those that are clearing houses or gateway providers of information to the US government.
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dreed

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stamper

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #337 on: July 27, 2013, 03:44:14 AM »

Whoever vetted the guy did a lousy job.

Someone could have " impeccable credentials" and be a loyal subject and sometime in the future become horrified by what occurs and then have a crisis of conscience?  :(  

popnfresh

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #338 on: July 27, 2013, 12:25:32 PM »

Hypothetically, they could. But Snowden deliberately sought employment at Booz Allen so he could betray the NSA. He's been quite up front about that.

http://www.theverge.com/2013/6/24/4460028/edward-snowden-booz-allen-nsa-contractor-job
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popnfresh

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #339 on: July 27, 2013, 12:36:48 PM »

One of the more interesting theories about Snowden is that he may actually be doing all of this at the behest of the NSA. His "whistleblowing" may all be fake.

https://www.facebook.com/notes/naomi-wolf/my-creeping-concern-that-the-nsa-leaker-is-not-who-he-purports-to-be-/10151559239607949
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