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Author Topic: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?  (Read 193266 times)

Rob C

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #120 on: July 09, 2013, 02:06:29 pm »

"Coal produced 42.8 per cent of the UK's electricity in 2012..."


But Mrs T. was active in the 80s.

Time and hindsight are huge advantages, even for back-pocket socialists and crypto-reds!

Funny how the mines have mostly gone, though, and only some strange folks playing troglodyte in the New Forest still approach it with zest. The problem as I see it is this: you can approach one of those convenient mines with an outside, ground-level tunnel entrance, armed with nothing more than a shovel, a pick, a canary, a candle, a mule and a carrot. As a single miner, you make a profit from the mineral you extract because you don’t have to pay the canary and the mule squat.

Now, if you introduce an actual lift-shaft, your logistical problems magnify and multiply, almost as rapidly as your costs and other difficulties, the principal one of those being the fact that the mule couldn’t give a damn about the carrot when faced with a cage on a string. Mules may be half-breeds, but they ain’t dumb! Ask any mule. So, importation makes sense, especially when the dust remains somewhere else, as does the mule shit, though I expect the British farmers might be persuaded to use that to fertilize and disinfect, instead of the toxic, bee-killing stuff that they do use. However, should the mine be in Ireland, you may be in luck: they have horses there that regularly get taken into high-rise apartments, so perhaps substituting horses for mules… worth a shot. Well, not literally I hasten to add, we’ve had enough of those!

There are so many options, so many facts, so many conflicting sources of super information…

Rob C
« Last Edit: July 09, 2013, 02:08:02 pm by Rob C »
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RSL

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #121 on: July 09, 2013, 04:20:38 pm »

I know what. But can't tell you... the terrorists would find out ;D

Great one, Slobodan.  ;D  ;D Demonstrates how serious this whole discussion really is.

If you can't make photographs, bitch about something you know nothing about. It's fun.
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Isaac

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #122 on: July 09, 2013, 05:18:22 pm »

"Coal produced 42.8 per cent of the UK's electricity in 2012..."
But Mrs T. was active in the 80s.

And the UK's electricity was also generated from coal in the '70s '80s '90s '00s - even at the peak of North Sea oil production.

And domestic coal mines which were known to be profitable at the time were shuttered.

No hindsight required.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #123 on: July 09, 2013, 06:19:54 pm »

Great one, Slobodan.  ;D  ;D Demonstrates how serious this whole discussion really is.

If you can't make photographs, bitch about something you know nothing about. It's fun.

Are we now getting nasty and personal, Russ!? My photographic skills have nothing to do with the debate, or may not be to everyone's liking, but I thought that I am at least a notch above "can't make photographs," no?

As for "you know nothing about"... not sure about the "nothing" part, though. I spent seven years working for the State Department, as a local employee in their embassy in my hometown, so at least I had a close view on their intel gathering and secrecy protocols. Not direct involvement, granted, but first-row view, perhaps enough for a notch above "nothing," no?

Vladimirovich

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #124 on: July 09, 2013, 06:30:46 pm »

I spent seven years working for the State Department, as a local employee in their embassy in my hometown, so at least I had a close view on their intel gathering and secrecy protocols.

now I am all ears... plz continue...

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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #125 on: July 09, 2013, 06:36:25 pm »

Your alter ego, Vlad? ;)

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #126 on: July 09, 2013, 07:02:14 pm »

But Mrs T. was active in the 80s.

And the UK's electricity was also generated from coal in the '70s '80s '90s '00s - even at the peak of North Sea oil production.

Indeed, although mostly cheaper imported coal from Australia.

Quote
And domestic coal mines which were known to be profitable at the time were shuttered.

Interesting. Any sources for that?

All I could find was that: "In early 1984, the Conservative government of Margaret Thatcher announced plans to close 20 uneconomic coal pits which led to the year-long miners' strike which ended in March 1985 with the miners defeated."

But then we all know how reliable some sources of information are ...

Cheers,
Bart
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Isaac

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RSL

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #128 on: July 09, 2013, 08:27:50 pm »

Are we now getting nasty and personal, Russ!?

No, Slobodan. That comment was intended for the whole group on this thread, and I apologize because I can see why you could take it personally. I see endless comments by people who haven't a clue what they're talking about, but that's pretty normal when something like this comes up.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #129 on: July 09, 2013, 11:13:24 pm »

No, Slobodan. That comment was intended for the whole group on this thread, and I apologize because I can see why you could take it personally. I see endless comments by people who haven't a clue what they're talking about, but that's pretty normal when something like this comes up.

The thing is that most of us here in this thread somehow feel that you already sent our names to your friends who have diligently put them on a black list RSL.

That's the kind of world your paranoia has us living in.

Considering your photographic skills, I am sure you understand that whether you actually did it or not is irrelevant.  ;D

On your question, since all this results from 911 alone, I would first need clear proof that the reality of the threat has been investigated with the level of depth required and that pre-Prism intelligence gathering wasn't already sufficient. Whatever happened on 911, there is beyond possible doubt that it was not investigated independently. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_9/11_Commission

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: July 09, 2013, 11:35:20 pm by BernardLanguillier »
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tom b

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #130 on: July 09, 2013, 11:33:27 pm »

NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden: 'I don't want to live in a society that does these sort of things' – 2 videos.

Video 1

Video 2

Cheers,
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Tom Brown

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #131 on: July 10, 2013, 03:12:52 am »

Google is your friend, not Wikipedia ;-)

Isn't Google one of those supplying info to Prism?

Quote
October 1992, Coal mines named for closure were 'profitable'

From that article about more current mining operations, not those in 1984 !:
"FIVE OF the 10 pits under threat of imminent closure were sufficiently profitable to be privatised, according to British Coal's own advisers".
 and
"British Coal calculates that the 10 pits lost pounds 31m last year, but has refused to give pit-by-pit figures."

Also well known is that the mines were so heavily subsidized by Government (= taxpayers), that it was cheaper to put the miners on welfare than to prolong the demise of that industry (in part caused by demands of the unions).

Quote
April 2013, The long, slow death of the UK coal industry

The reference in that link to once upon a time "profitable pits" comes from Chris Kitchen, general secretary of the National Union of Mineworkers (NUM). I'm not clear on which ones he meant, those in 1984 or the few remaining ones.

No, I'm not convinced by your info that they were profitable at the time the decision was taken to close them down. Besides, this is not really on topic for this thread, but feel free to spread some more disinformation.

Cheers,
Bart
« Last Edit: July 10, 2013, 03:43:19 am by BartvanderWolf »
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Isaac

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #132 on: July 10, 2013, 04:07:38 am »

From that article about more current mining operations, not those in 1984 !

1992 isn't current anymore.


Also well known is that the mines were so heavily subsidized by Government (= taxpayers), that it was cheaper to put the miners on welfare than to prolong the demise of that industry (in part caused by demands of the unions).

As you said: "Any sources for that?"


The reference in that link to once upon a time "profitable pits" ...

I'm surprised there was any reference in that 2013 article to "profitable pits".

Not having an axe to grind, to me, it seemed like a reasonable summary of the current situation -- it even states that the bulk of coal for electricity generation is now imported.


Besides, this is not really on topic for this thread...

Take that up with Rob C.
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Rob C

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #133 on: July 10, 2013, 04:10:53 am »

Isn't Google one of those supplying info to Prism?
 
Also well known is that the mines were so heavily subsidized by Government (= taxpayers), that it was cheaper to put the miners on welfare than to prolong the demise of that industry (in part caused by demands of the unions).

The reference in that link to once upon a time "profitable pits" comes from Chris Kitchen, general secretary of the National Union of Mineworkers (NUM). I'm not clear on which ones he meant, those in 1984 or the few remaining ones.

No, I'm not convinced by your info that they were profitable at the time the decision was taken to close them down. Besides, this is not really on topic for this thread, but feel free to spread some more disinformation.

Cheers,
Bart


Bart, after a while you realise that these discussions are pointless. Some folks are born with blinkers on and spend their lives adding more layers to the screen if only to perpetuate the fables they learned on their parents’ knees.

That any benign government would imagine the slightest advantage to it in reducing employment, putting more strain on an already stretched economy, fomenting more unrest than already exists at any given time, is totally absurd – there isn’t a single thing to be gained, but a huge amount to be lost: power.

That humanity is ever divided between the motivators and the followers is also an inescapable fact. Even twins will grow up and follow different paths, have different abilities and achieve different levels of success in life.

Some like to hide behind excuses about birth circumstances etc, as if personal input meant nothing. It’s so easy to do zilch and blame the world at large for one’s own inactivity, commercial sloth and lack of progression up the ladder; some deny the ladder exists.

Education is often the whipping boy. I suppose a class full of kids who want nothing more than to chat on their cell ‘phones is the teacher’s fault; that many don’t do any work but prefer to disrupt the education of their mates is also the teacher’s fault; that they will turn round and tell that teacher that education’s a waste of time because their pal is working as a plumber or basic electrician and making many thousands a year is also the teacher’s fault.

It’s always another person’s fault. That the individual may be lazy and pretty much useless even to him/herself must never be imagined nor, heaven forbid, mentioned.

It’s the age in which we live; we have bred our own holy cows.

Rob C
« Last Edit: July 10, 2013, 04:13:32 am by Rob C »
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Rob C

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #134 on: July 10, 2013, 04:35:29 am »


As you said: "Any sources for that?"


Take that up with Rob C.



Isaac, I am retired and have not much to do with time other than keep myself and the property relatively clean, decide between wearing the bandana or the baseball cap, wander out for lunch to keep the tissues together, snap a few snaps, view the occasional website, avoid splitting the odd infinitive, dream a very few remaining dreams and then hope, at best, to do it all over again the next day. And that takes up most of my waking hours. Oh - and I sometimes wash the car, which seems to grow inexplicably larger (and mostly higher) every time I do that.

Had I any employment, were I still young, I wouldn't have opportunity to be writing here very much.

How do you make time for all of your vigorous research into all these exciting threads? Do you have staff?

Rob C

stamper

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #135 on: July 10, 2013, 04:44:21 am »

No, Slobodan. That comment was intended for the whole group on this thread, and I apologize because I can see why you could take it personally. I see endless comments by people who haven't a clue what they're talking about, but that's pretty normal when something like this comes up.

Is Rob included in the group? You did say the whole group. Disparaging people who don't agree with you means it is probably pointless you being a member of any internet forum.  :(

tom b

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #136 on: July 10, 2013, 08:44:21 am »

Just recently I watched a documentary on Iran and I heard Barack Obama admit something that I thought no American president would ever admit. It should have made headlines around the world. Without doing a Google search does anyone know what he said?

Cheers,
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Tom Brown

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #137 on: July 10, 2013, 08:48:13 am »

Just recently I watched a documentary on Iran and I heard Barack Obama admit something that I thought no American president would ever admit. It should have made headlines around the world. Without doing a Google search does anyone know what he said?

"Come on now! No more uprisings! You people have it great over there!"
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PeterAit

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #138 on: July 10, 2013, 08:51:16 am »

People participating in this thread would do well to read Daniel Ellserg's (of Pentagon Papers fame) column in the Washington Post. It was in our local paper today so it was probably in the Post a couple of days ago.
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dreed

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #139 on: July 10, 2013, 09:24:20 am »

People participating in this thread would do well to read Daniel Ellserg's (of Pentagon Papers fame) column in the Washington Post. It was in our local paper today so it was probably in the Post a couple of days ago.

Daniel Ellsberg: Snowden made the right call when he fled the U.S.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2013, 09:31:37 am by dreed »
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