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Author Topic: Interested in moving to Capture One?  (Read 5197 times)

David Grover / Phase One

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Interested in moving to Capture One?
« on: July 02, 2013, 07:46:19 AM »

Hi All,

Just a quick plug for tomorrows Webinar on Transitioning to Capture One from other applications.

Webinar Landing page is here with sign up links.

Webinars are free and carried out twice a day.  Most importantly you can pose your Questions to me at the end of the Webinar.

http://www.anpdm.com/newsletter/989440/424559477740425C4571

Best Regards,



David
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David Grover
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Interested in moving to Capture One?
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2013, 08:35:06 AM »

Just a quick plug for tomorrows Webinar on Transitioning to Capture One from other applications.

Very timely indeed!  ;)

Cheers,
Bernard
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Chris_Brown

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Re: Interested in moving to Capture One?
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2013, 09:16:56 AM »

Can Capture One use DNG camera profiles? If it it only utilizes ICC camera profiles, does Capture One make a program to generate them?

Any info is appreciated.
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john beardsworth

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Re: Interested in moving to Capture One?
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2013, 09:27:27 AM »

When I looked a few months ago, Capture One's handling of DNGs was second rate. If Phase want to encourage migration from Adobe, they should be handling DNGs in the same way as proprietary raw files.

Alan Smallbone

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Re: Interested in moving to Capture One?
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2013, 10:20:25 AM »

David,

Are the webinars being recorded and archived? They are at times I cannot attend. Also will the catalog import tool be available for windows anytime soon? I see it is listed as mac and beta only at this moment.

Will the videos be posted on your youtube channel?

Alan
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Interested in moving to Capture One?
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2013, 10:36:31 AM »

Hi,

I agree on the DNG part.

Best regards
Erik

When I looked a few months ago, Capture One's handling of DNGs was second rate. If Phase want to encourage migration from Adobe, they should be handling DNGs in the same way as proprietary raw files.

David Grover / Phase One

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Re: Interested in moving to Capture One?
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2013, 05:03:26 PM »

David,

Are the webinars being recorded and archived? They are at times I cannot attend. Also will the catalog import tool be available for windows anytime soon? I see it is listed as mac and beta only at this moment.

Will the videos be posted on your youtube channel?

Alan

Hi Alan,

We already posted the Transitioning webinar (which I did a few weeks back) on our Youtube channel.  Since we have now added the Lightroom importer we will replace it with tomorrows webinar.

So far the LR importer is Mac only but we will work to a PC version.

David

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David Grover
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David Grover / Phase One

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Re: Interested in moving to Capture One?
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2013, 05:05:56 PM »

When I looked a few months ago, Capture One's handling of DNGs was second rate. If Phase want to encourage migration from Adobe, they should be handling DNGs in the same way as proprietary raw files.

If the camera produces a native DNG file then we can treat it as a proprietary RAW file.  If it has been converted from the native RAW file to a DNG then it is likely you will have a better experience in Capture One with the proprietary RAW file.

For many reasons, I would stick with the manufacturers RAW file.

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David Grover
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john beardsworth

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Re: Interested in moving to Capture One?
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2013, 06:26:53 PM »

And that's exactly what you should be changing.

David Grover / Phase One

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Re: Interested in moving to Capture One?
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2013, 07:27:09 AM »

And that's exactly what you should be changing.

....to Capture One.  ;)
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David Grover
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john beardsworth

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Re: Interested in moving to Capture One?
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2013, 07:51:21 AM »

I did say "what" rather than "why". ;)   If only to remove an obstacle to switching, I'd argue that if C1 detects that a DNG has been made from a supported camera, then it should treat its raw data exactly as if it came directly from a proprietary raw file. FWIW, that's how Aperture behaves.

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Re: Interested in moving to Capture One?
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2013, 03:12:34 PM »

David,

I'm in the last days of C1 trial now. I have a large collection of Nikon D100 files from years past. That camera did not have a rotation sensor. So, my verticals are coming in horizontal. I managed to get a full page thumb view similar to Grid in LR. But, if I shift click a range of images in the thumbs and use the "rotate" command in C1, only the first image of the selection is rotated. Surely one doesn't have to rotate images one-at-a-time in C1. What am I doing wrong?

Also, does C1 offer live view with Nikon D700 and D800E? How about focus mask with LV? That would be great. (I know I could try this but I haven't gotten to it yet.) ::)
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Interested in moving to Capture One?
« Reply #12 on: July 04, 2013, 12:49:15 PM »

Hi,

From what I have seem from focus masking I am highly skeptical. At least on Sony it is a POS and it does not impress me on C1 either. If you want something that actually works you need to look at live view manual focus at actual pixels.

Best regards
Erik

David,

I'm in the last days of C1 trial now. I have a large collection of Nikon D100 files from years past. That camera did not have a rotation sensor. So, my verticals are coming in horizontal. I managed to get a full page thumb view similar to Grid in LR. But, if I shift click a range of images in the thumbs and use the "rotate" command in C1, only the first image of the selection is rotated. Surely one doesn't have to rotate images one-at-a-time in C1. What am I doing wrong?

Also, does C1 offer live view with Nikon D700 and D800E? How about focus mask with LV? That would be great. (I know I could try this but I haven't gotten to it yet.) ::)

David Grover / Phase One

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Re: Interested in moving to Capture One?
« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2013, 05:43:05 AM »

David,

I'm in the last days of C1 trial now. I have a large collection of Nikon D100 files from years past. That camera did not have a rotation sensor. So, my verticals are coming in horizontal. I managed to get a full page thumb view similar to Grid in LR. But, if I shift click a range of images in the thumbs and use the "rotate" command in C1, only the first image of the selection is rotated. Surely one doesn't have to rotate images one-at-a-time in C1. What am I doing wrong?

Also, does C1 offer live view with Nikon D700 and D800E? How about focus mask with LV? That would be great. (I know I could try this but I haven't gotten to it yet.) ::)

Hi Daniel,

No, you don't have to do it one by one!  ;)

Goto Edit and check that you have Edit All Selected Variants checked. 

Yes you have Live View with those Nikons.   There is no 'Focus Peaking' in Live View which is probably what you would like, but you can zoom into 100% and focus spot on... also by using the focus controls - no need to touch the lens.

David

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David Grover
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David Grover / Phase One

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Re: Interested in moving to Capture One?
« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2013, 05:44:19 AM »

Hi,

From what I have seem from focus masking I am highly skeptical. At least on Sony it is a POS and it does not impress me on C1 either. If you want something that actually works you need to look at live view manual focus at actual pixels.

Best regards
Erik


Depends on what you are looking at.  For a portrait image with shallow depth of field it works really well (which is where you want it to work).  On a landscape where there is less differentiation between sharp / unsharp it is harder to detect.

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StephaneB

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Re: Interested in moving to Capture One?
« Reply #15 on: July 05, 2013, 08:23:03 AM »

If the camera produces a native DNG file then we can treat it as a proprietary RAW file.  If it has been converted from the native RAW file to a DNG then it is likely you will have a better experience in Capture One with the proprietary RAW file.

For many reasons, I would stick with the manufacturers RAW file.



Pardon my bluntness, but you really don't get it. If you hope that users of a software from a dominant competitor will switch to your software, you really do not maximize your chances if you don't make sure their legacy will transition as well as possible.

For many users, sticking with manufacturers RAW files is only an option for future files, not for existing DNG files.

So, tu summarize, to get customers to switch from LR to C1, you need:
  - C1 offering significantly better experience/results/value
  - C1 to treat existing files well with no questions asked

To me, C1 fails both tests at the moment.
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Interested in moving to Capture One?
« Reply #16 on: July 06, 2013, 07:18:09 AM »

Hi,

In essence I share your opinion. Being a long time LR user (I have been using it since the first Beta 3, the first version you run on Widows), I am obviously biased.

But I have some clear reservations.

One is that the user interface seems to have a lot of perks. Why cannot I see the image I just imported? Why does it set some odd light balance? I am right now shooting a P45+, but my images default to something sane in Lightroom. Some new feature in 7.1.3, I think it worked better before?

Just an example, I import my P45+ image into Lightroom and it uses 6050 K Tint +18. Image looks good.C1 it defaults to 4284K and 1.6. It says "shot" which I assume it means it is using white balance from the P45. Klicking on shot it changes to 5797 -2.6. Grass is yellowish. If I double klick on "tint" it also changes "Kelvin". I would suggest that Phase One would need to put some effort in testing the user interface.

Best regards
Erik


Pardon my bluntness, but you really don't get it. If you hope that users of a software from a dominant competitor will switch to your software, you really do not maximize your chances if you don't make sure their legacy will transition as well as possible.

For many users, sticking with manufacturers RAW files is only an option for future files, not for existing DNG files.

So, tu summarize, to get customers to switch from LR to C1, you need:
  - C1 offering significantly better experience/results/value
  - C1 to treat existing files well with no questions asked

To me, C1 fails both tests at the moment.

BartvanderWolf

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Re: Interested in moving to Capture One?
« Reply #17 on: July 06, 2013, 11:17:43 AM »

Being a long time LR user (I have been using it since the first Beta 3, the first version you run on Widows), I am obviously biased.

I agree, and understand.

Quote
But I have some clear reservations.

One is that the user interface seems to have a lot of perks.

Well, they all do, don't they?

Quote
Why cannot I see the image I just imported?

Explain, how did you import, and where are you looking (thumbnails in the filmstrip?)

Quote
Why does it set some odd light balance? I am right now shooting a P45+, but my images default to something sane in Lightroom. Some new feature in 7.1.3, I think it worked better before?

Odd light balance?

Quote
Just an example, I import my P45+ image into Lightroom and it uses 6050 K Tint +18. Image looks good.C1 it defaults to 4284K and 1.6. It says "shot" which I assume it means it is using white balance from the P45.

Seems normal, unless you have another preset selected in e.g. a default style.

Quote
Klicking on shot it changes to 5797 -2.6. Grass is yellowish.

Apparently you shot it with a White Balance that was not optimal for that image. Or did you shoot it with a completely different Kelvin? Or do you think that the Kelvin value will be identical with LR (it won't, different color engine, CCT is not a unique value)?

Quote
If I double klick on "tint" it also changes "Kelvin".

Double click on tint? Why? Or are you selecting the slider, or the text box? On my system, selecting the tint doesn't change the Kelvin, unless I accidentally scroll my mouse wheel while hovering the mouse pointer over that slider.

Cheers,
Bart
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Interested in moving to Capture One?
« Reply #18 on: July 06, 2013, 11:58:06 AM »

Bart,

Thanks for comments. See responses below.

Just to explain, I normally use the camera's automatic white balance which works well on my Sony. I also think it works on P45+, at least in LR5 (or LR4.4).

Sometimes I shoot a reference image of a CC card but that is not normally the case.

Just discovered, the problem with the obscene colours arises with my P45+ back. Sony ARW files are processed with decent colour. LR handles both P45+ IIQ-s and Sony ARW in similar manner.

BTW, I am using Mac OS X 10.8.3, could that be a problem?

Best regards
Erik

Explain, how did you import, and where are you looking (thumbnails in the filmstrip?)

Yes, importing a directory and looking at the thumbnails in the filmstrip.

Odd light balance?
Yes, I expect the browser to respect light balance in raw file.

Seems normal, unless you have another preset selected in e.g. a default style.
I use defaults as far as I know.

Apparently you shot it with a White Balance that was not optimal for that image. Or did you shoot it with a completely different Kelvin? Or do you think that the Kelvin value will be identical with LR (it won't, different color engine, CCT is not a unique value)?
Auto white balance on P45+ back. Works fine with LR

Double click on tint? Why? Or are you selecting the slider, or the text box? On my system, selecting the tint doesn't change the Kelvin, unless I accidentally scroll my mouse wheel while hovering the mouse pointer over that slider.
Yes, Lightroom resets sliders to default on double klick. I thought C1 might do that too. It seems to reset both color temperature and tint.

I noted that it chooses Phase One P45+ Flash as standard profile but it seems identical to outdoor profile. Yields exactly the same average Delta E.
I also noted that it defaults to Film Standard, and I usually set it to "linear", but I feel defaults need to give a workable baseline.

I enclose default import on LR4 and C1 for one of the images I work with.

Perhaps you note that there is a clipping indication on the flagpole? If I reduce exposure it's still stays on. RawDigger says no clipping, even if I actually there is some, visible with log Y-axis.

« Last Edit: July 06, 2013, 03:34:03 PM by ErikKaffehr »
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Vladimirovich

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Re: Interested in moving to Capture One?
« Reply #19 on: July 06, 2013, 01:42:03 PM »

I did say "what" rather than "why". ;)   If only to remove an obstacle to switching, I'd argue that if C1 detects that a DNG has been made from a supported camera, then it should treat its raw data exactly as if it came directly from a proprietary raw file. FWIW, that's how Aperture behaves.
that is because Adobe designed DNG standards to suit its own internal processing (raw processing pipeline in ACR/LR) in the first place... not vice versa.
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