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Author Topic: New Mac Pro: What it means for Phase, Leaf  (Read 17943 times)

Doug Peterson

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New Mac Pro: What it means for Phase, Leaf
« on: June 10, 2013, 03:26:20 PM »

We've published a short technical note in response to the new Mac Pro announcement:
New Mac Pro: What it means for Phase, Leaf

Also notably Capture One strongly leverages the video card for Open CL for both on screen adjustment ("responsiveness") and processing to JPG/TIFF. I fully expect the new dual video card option to provide a great Capture One experience.

As always, I'd recommend waiting for us to test rather than assume. We'll have one the moment their available.

This new Mac Pro sure looks like a big winner to me. Though the lack of internal upgradability is a bit disconcerting.

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design_freak

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Re: New Mac Pro: What it means for Phase, Leaf
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2013, 03:36:00 PM »

This may mean that some companies missed a thing  ;D
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Wayne Fox

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Re: New Mac Pro: What it means for Phase, Leaf
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2013, 05:02:46 PM »

Though the lack of internal upgradability is a bit disconcerting.
An interesting and pretty cool look. Reviewing the specs, and considering the speed of TB 2 so things like raids etc can be external, I'm not seeing a real need to do internal upgrading. 

Can't wait to get my hands on one.

MrSmith

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Re: New Mac Pro: What it means for Phase, Leaf
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2013, 05:09:17 PM »

Does it have FW800?
Wonder how it will tether?
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Doug Peterson

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Re: New Mac Pro: What it means for Phase, Leaf
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2013, 05:14:14 PM »

An interesting and pretty cool look. Reviewing the specs, and considering the speed of TB 2 so things like raids etc can be external, I'm not seeing a real need to do internal upgrading. Can't wait to get my hands on one.

Agreed. Before Thunderbolt the lack of internal upgradability would have been a non-starter.

Now it's just a bit uncomfortable. More than anything else I think it's a matter of getting used to the new paradigm that external storage need not be necessarily slower.

Doug Peterson

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Re: New Mac Pro: What it means for Phase, Leaf
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2013, 05:16:32 PM »

Does it have FW800? Wonder how it will tether?

Did you read the link? That was the entire point of the post. It does not have FireWire at all.
New Mac Pro: What it means for Phase, Leaf

The article spells out that users of modern Phase/Leaf backs need not worry as the Thunderbolt adapter works great. Also the IQ1 and IQ2 and Credo backs have USB3, which after considerable delay on the IQ1, is now working great.

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Re: New Mac Pro: What it means for Phase, Leaf
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2013, 05:43:42 PM »

No,my mistake I assumed the link was just to apple.  ;D
With that many thunderbolt ports and the ability to multiply no internal expansion is not too disappointing, would have been nice to see a couple of ssd sized slots but if external devices come down in price it shouldnt prohibit easy expansion.
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Steve Weldon

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Re: New Mac Pro: What it means for Phase, Leaf
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2013, 07:31:27 PM »

Well.. from a PC users point of view..

1.  R2D2 got a new paint job.   Or did the Hoover?  With that fan in the middle probably Hoover.  You really could drill and put a air intake and vacuum port on that thing and use it to clean the carpet.. ;o)

2.  I've got a new Synology 1813+ on pre-order, but I still don't want to give up internal storage drives.  Then I'd need two 1813's, one with TB.. And some sort of LAN to TB adapter because I certainly don't want either sitting on my workspace.  Or under it.  And while it appears the PCIe SSD cards will be fast, I have to wonder if they'll be as fast and refined as the Revo's and in the same price realm?  And will they be upgradable?  SSD tech is moving fast.

3.  I read nothing about choices of video cards.  So will I have to buy the fastest ones, the slowest ones, or something in the middle determined by who?  And will they be upgradable?  Video card tech moves fast as well.

4.  I really like the "one box, all my computer crap in the box" model.  I don't want 2-3-4 components sitting on my desk even if they're connected by a nice (and expensive) TB cable.

5.  What about the vast majority of people who would be well served by a single CPU and video card?  Will there by options?  I'm sure you can just populate one CPU socket but.. 

It's cool looking and if it fits your needs 'exactly' I'm sure it won't be that much more expensive (than a PC).. Or maybe it will be a lot more customizable than it looks.  Sure hope so.
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Mr. Rib

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Re: New Mac Pro: What it means for Phase, Leaf
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2013, 07:51:04 PM »

I don't like it. I would like to have a single chassis in which you can stuff everything you need, fully customizable, with easy access to all peripherals and a huge margin for further expansion. The most important aspect of a "Pro" branch is that the spectrum of the needs is very, very wide. I just don't see that thing satisfying the needs of all these different "pro's" and the particular applications they're after.
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TMARK

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Re: New Mac Pro: What it means for Phase, Leaf
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2013, 08:36:03 PM »

Perfect for broadcast, TV studio, film production.

The last MacPro I bought for my old production company cost $11,000, all in.  It was sweet in 2008.

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design_freak

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Re: New Mac Pro: What it means for Phase, Leaf
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2013, 08:44:36 PM »

Some are still alive in the previous era ... That is what is there TB2. If you want a new specialized card, just connect it, not caring anymore if you have an empty slot, or you have the appropriate slot. In this way, you can create much more sophisticated equipment, which was not possible until now. (In the era of box pc) I mean, expandable with cards.Now It will be a very advanced units like more separate computers.
Start to think differently 8)
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TMARK

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Re: New Mac Pro: What it means for Phase, Leaf
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2013, 08:47:52 PM »

Some are still alive in the previous era ... That is what is there TB2. If you want a new specialized card, just connect it, not caring anymore if you have an empty slot, or you have the appropriate slot. In this way, you can create much more sophisticated equipment, which was not possible until now. (In the era of box pc) I mean, expandable with cards.Now It will be a very advanced units like more separate computers.
Start to think differently 8)

YES indeed.

When Apple comes out with a new machine everyone shits on it until they have it.  The hysteria dies down, and people get to work. 
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design_freak

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Re: New Mac Pro: What it means for Phase, Leaf
« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2013, 08:55:58 PM »

LOL
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kers

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Re: New Mac Pro: What it means for Phase, Leaf
« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2013, 09:27:32 PM »

Some how the design reminds me of 'the lamp'
making a round enclosure around only square parts...
OK... the fan is the key- but is that part so important..? I agree heat goes up so in that sense the design is logical...
Still i rather would have like a little square that i can put my 'old' stuff in...
- 'the lamp' had a very short life and was quickly replaced by the first screen iMac




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Wayne Fox

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Re: New Mac Pro: What it means for Phase, Leaf
« Reply #15 on: June 10, 2013, 09:52:20 PM »

Does it have FW800?
Wonder how it will tether?
if you have Thunderbolt, you have FW800 - just takes a $30 part. According to tech crunch it has 6 Thunderbolt 2 ports and 2 firewire 800 ports.  I can't see those in the images in the keynote, and I'm not sure why they would bother since adding FW takes a $30 dongle so I think they're wrong..  IN fact in the keynote schiller says  "6 Firewire 2 ports" referring to the Thunderbolt 2 ports ... whoops.

I don't like it. I would like to have a single chassis in which you can stuff everything you need, fully customizable, with easy access to all peripherals and a huge margin for further expansion. The most important aspect of a "Pro" branch is that the spectrum of the needs is very, very wide. I just don't see that thing satisfying the needs of all these different "pro's" and the particular applications they're after.

I guess we agree to disagree, I prefer the small form factor.  At this point you can't get enough into the current macpro chassis so most everyone has some raids hanging off it (I have two eSata external raids on mine) So why make it bigger since external expansion doesn't take a performance hit and is so easy to do, instead just make sure you have the required stuff in the box, including super fast SSD for OS/Applications.

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Re: New Mac Pro: What it means for Phase, Leaf
« Reply #16 on: June 10, 2013, 10:07:34 PM »

Though the lack of internal upgradability is a bit disconcerting.

Hum, I guess you aren't used to dealing with 10-12 TB of data huh? With the current MacPro limit if 4 internal (unless you put a drive in the 2nd DVD slot) most people dealing with tons of storage have already found good external fast storage. I run a pair of 6x2 TB stripped arrays via a 6 drive eSTATA enclosure from Burly Storage. The only drives I have internal are 4 15K SAS drives connected via MacRaid which with the new internal SSD connection will be faster.

Once you get past the limits of "internal" storage vs really fast external storage, you'll see that you really don't want a lot of internal storage because of the limits of power supply and heat reduction. With the massive external fast storage, you don't need to burden the internals of the workstation–which is a good thing!
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Craig Lamson

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Re: New Mac Pro: What it means for Phase, Leaf
« Reply #17 on: June 10, 2013, 10:21:03 PM »

Speaking of the power supply, anyone know if is internal or external?

External would really, really suck.

I'm on the fence myself.  Was considering a new MP to replace my Hack.  Not sure this one works for me just yet.  Have 6 internal drives, external does not sound attractive nor cheap.

Not seeing a lot of love for this yet around the net, but that too might change in time.

iCan?
« Last Edit: June 10, 2013, 10:27:43 PM by Craig Lamson »
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TMARK

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Re: New Mac Pro: What it means for Phase, Leaf
« Reply #18 on: June 10, 2013, 11:25:05 PM »

This machine's data throughput combined with TB2 external storage will be awesome for motion. I like external storage. The 6 drives in my MacPro (2 SSD in the DVD 2 slot) just isn't enough nor is it really fast enough. I've used external storage for a while, including a LaCie TB SSD drive with my laptop and iMac. I see no limitations or downside here.
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Steve Weldon

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Re: New Mac Pro: What it means for Phase, Leaf
« Reply #19 on: June 11, 2013, 12:10:10 AM »

drives I have internal are 4 15K SAS drives connected via MacRaid which with the new internal SSD connection will be faster.

Once you get past the limits of "internal" storage vs really fast external storage, you'll see that you really don't want a lot of internal storage because of the limits of power supply and heat reduction. With the massive external fast storage, you don't need to burden the internals of the workstation–which is a good thing!

I suppose this is a limitation of a MacPro.  With PC's it's really not a problem to properly power and control 8 drives (32tb) in a well designed and cooled mid-size case, or up to 16-20 (64-80tb) in a full size case.   I'm of the opinion that I'd much rather choose my own power supply (clean quality power) to supply my storage drives than let the OEM of a RAID/NAS chassis choose one for me.  They tend to go as cheap as possible, where I tend to buy extra quality/power as a safety margin.  By the same token I've seen precious few RAID/NAS cases that keep the drives as cool as a well designed case can.  And then there's noise.

I have several NAS enclosures personally and I've built/supplied a grunch of then, and very few have equaled even an average PC case in power, cooling and noise.  I have a new Synology 1813+ on pre-order I'm hoping breaks that mold.  And I'm hoping that it's internal CPU/processing will relieve the main CPU of a bit.

With the more recent advent of RAID/NAS boxes for home and small business users we are tending to gravitate towards their use.  With the traditional drives in a PC case most are used to we basically pay for drives, a bigger power supply, and a bigger case.. the last two if we don't already have them.  With external RAID/NAS boxes there's more expense, and up until TB or a quality home hard wired network you're still hobbled by cheap power supplies, inferior cooling, more noise, and inferior transfer speeds.  You can work past these things, but the costs add up rapidly.

Considering all that, there is no greater bargain or performance choice than an "in case" storage solution.  More convenient in most cases too.   Yet, NAS's and better home networks are giving us more choices. 
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