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Author Topic: Worldwide medium format market  (Read 34666 times)

FredBGG

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Re: Worldwide medium format market
« Reply #100 on: May 16, 2013, 02:31:25 AM »

The dealer model may be nice and all, where it works. The European market is so fragmented (many small countries, language barriers etc) so what you often get is a one-man company 1000 km away whose main income is not from the products they represent. Service can be crap, it really can. When I turned to my "local" dealer for support for my Leaf back it turned out that he had sort of stopped actively selling Leaf backs (he preferred Phase One) and had an out of date price list, also overpriced from favourable currency conversion and did not know how the repair process works. After complaining for a while I was allowed by Leaf to change dealer to someone else, got one on recommendation and they seem good apart from that they don't communicate that often. Like once every four weeks. Support goes rather slow that way.

By far, the best source of support for me has been this forum, but you don't do repairs here, unfortunately :)

When it's this dysfunctional I really think one should look into other models or complementary models to the traditional dealer. I think one should shut down those one-man dealerships and instead concentrate to fewer but larger ones, some which has a strong web presence and can sell and support remotely, and the manufacturer should have some process to ensure the quality of the dealers. Currently quality control seems to be non-existent (at least with my manufacturer), and still they strongly urge you to turn to your geographically nearest dealer, and if you live in the wrong place that'll be a punishment.

Toger

I think you are right about forums and one should have the right to deal directly with the manufacturer.

My daughter was being dicked around by the Mercedes dealer on a recall. Mercedes were being dicks too.
I did some searching on forums and found a few users that had dealt with the same recalls. One provided me with copies of their
recall paper work. Armed with that I told Mercedes to get their act together. One posting on the Mercedes Facebook page with the recall internal code number
and hey presto Mercedes instructed the dealership to go ahead with the recall pronto.

The power of forums.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2013, 02:40:05 AM by FredBGG »
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Worldwide medium format market
« Reply #101 on: May 16, 2013, 09:52:02 AM »

I really do not know what this proves?  Maybe that your daughter bought her car from a not so good dealer.
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Joe Kitchen
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"Photography is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent moving furniture."  Arnold Newman
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lowep

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Re: Worldwide medium format market
« Reply #102 on: May 16, 2013, 11:41:02 AM »

thanks Klaben for pointing this out - always good to know on which side the bread is buttered
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KevinGSaunders

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Re: Worldwide medium format market
« Reply #103 on: May 16, 2013, 11:52:49 AM »

I live a zillion miles from any dealer and I have to agree that the dealers and Yair from Leaf have been tremendously helpful here. Without them I would be totally lost and my perspective is, while the market is small, if I can take advantage of this and provide imagery that others can't (or will have to try really hard to) compete, it is a fair tradeoff. My hat is off to all those who help this small group of lunatics who are pushing the envelope.
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lowep

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Re: Worldwide medium format market
« Reply #104 on: May 16, 2013, 01:08:41 PM »

what I mean is it is good to know the dealers offer tremendous support to this forum
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FredBGG

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Re: Worldwide medium format market
« Reply #105 on: May 16, 2013, 03:12:59 PM »

I really do not know what this proves?  Maybe that your daughter bought her car from a not so good dealer.

Not trying to prove anything. I just brought it up as a reinforcement of the usefulness of forums and social media to the enduser.
I'm not comparing the Mercedes "stealership" behavior to the photo dealers and repair people here. 
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eronald

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Re: Worldwide medium format market
« Reply #106 on: May 17, 2013, 09:38:06 AM »

As far as I'm concerned, the dealer experience with MF was the worst part of the purchase.

On the other hand company reps, those I've met, are very good, and wonderful for the customers.

Maybe the Leica boutique experience is the way to go for MF.

Edmund
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sgilbert

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Re: Worldwide medium format market
« Reply #107 on: May 17, 2013, 11:17:40 AM »

Edmund,

I think that if you've had a bad dealer experience, you should either name the dealer, or shut up about it.

Is it your claim that every dealer is bad?  Of course the Leica experience would better.  Leica is the bestest.

SG

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telyt

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Re: Worldwide medium format market
« Reply #108 on: May 17, 2013, 11:34:26 AM »

...  Of course the Leica experience would better.  Leica is the bestest.

Taking this somewhat out of context, I have to say my recent experience with Leica USA's service department lives up to the 'bestest' description.  I sent my R8 body to Leica USA for service recently - this is a 17-year-old model from a discontinued product line - and the personal service, attention to detail and to my particular needs has been exemplary.
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gigdagefg

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Re: Worldwide medium format market
« Reply #109 on: May 17, 2013, 11:37:27 AM »

I  treasure my Hasselblad dealer. his name is Peter Lorber in boca ration fl
He is always available and if he doesn't know the answer to one of my many questions, he immediately gets back to me with the correct information
Stanley
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TMARK

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Re: Worldwide medium format market
« Reply #110 on: May 17, 2013, 11:45:55 AM »

Taking this somewhat out of context, I have to say my recent experience with Leica USA's service department lives up to the 'bestest' description.  I sent my R8 body to Leica USA for service recently - this is a 17-year-old model from a discontinued product line - and the personal service, attention to detail and to my particular needs has been exemplary.

It is night and day from what it was even three years ago.  Really good service on bodies.  Quick turnaround.
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EricWHiss

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Re: Worldwide medium format market
« Reply #111 on: May 17, 2013, 11:53:27 AM »

It is night and day from what it was even three years ago.  Really good service on bodies.  Quick turnaround.

This is really good news to read.  I loved my Leicas but wasn't happy with the long waits on routine service. 
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TMARK

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Re: Worldwide medium format market
« Reply #112 on: May 17, 2013, 12:16:42 PM »

This is really good news to read.  I loved my Leicas but wasn't happy with the long waits on routine service. 

Lenses take longer unless it is really basic service, and depends on the complexity of the lens.  Major service means a trip to Solms.

My M9 was there for three days, RF adjust and LCD (in the VF) replacement.  Really nice service.
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EricWHiss

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Re: Worldwide medium format market
« Reply #113 on: May 17, 2013, 01:35:10 PM »

The last time I had occasion to use Leica service it took over 5 months to get my camera body back, so this sounds like a real improvement.   I had occasion to see and use a M240 and M Monochrome last month and I was really impressed with them. I thought the EVF for the m240 was really pretty cool considering how it could zoom in and highlight the areas in focus - focusing with the rangefinder is fine of course, but with a fast glass like the noctilux fitted in low light being able to nail focus with the EVF was really cool.
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TMARK

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Re: Worldwide medium format market
« Reply #114 on: May 17, 2013, 02:23:50 PM »

The last time I had occasion to use Leica service it took over 5 months to get my camera body back, so this sounds like a real improvement.   I had occasion to see and use a M240 and M Monochrome last month and I was really impressed with them. I thought the EVF for the m240 was really pretty cool considering how it could zoom in and highlight the areas in focus - focusing with the rangefinder is fine of course, but with a fast glass like the noctilux fitted in low light being able to nail focus with the EVF was really cool.

leica told me they beefed up their operations so that at least bodies could be serviced quickly.  They seem to be able to do lens repairs, just not on the exotic FLE and Noctilux lenses.  if they can do them in nj turn around is quick, although I haven't sent them a lens.
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TMARK

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Re: Worldwide medium format market
« Reply #115 on: May 17, 2013, 02:26:47 PM »

The last time I had occasion to use Leica service it took over 5 months to get my camera body back, so this sounds like a real improvement.   I had occasion to see and use a M240 and M Monochrome last month and I was really impressed with them. I thought the EVF for the m240 was really pretty cool considering how it could zoom in and highlight the areas in focus - focusing with the rangefinder is fine of course, but with a fast glass like the noctilux fitted in low light being able to nail focus with the EVF was really cool.

Oh yeah, the M240 is really great.  It is a thick file like the d800, but with the M form and M lenses.  Shot with one for an afternoon.  It is different than the M9 files, in a good way.
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eronald

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Re: Worldwide medium format market
« Reply #116 on: May 17, 2013, 03:59:18 PM »

This is really good news to read.  I loved my Leicas but wasn't happy with the long waits on routine service. 

Might be that Leica will soon be a "pro" brand again - they could do a loaner replacement easily now they have boutiques in every major city in Europe.

Edmund
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Rob C

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Re: Worldwide medium format market
« Reply #117 on: May 18, 2013, 04:32:54 AM »

Might be that Leica will soon be a "pro" brand again - they could do a loaner replacement easily now they have boutiques in every major city in Europe.

Edmund


Wouldn't it be nice if 'loaners' were redundant, that cameras just worked... and worked, and you could afford two, just in case.

Rob C

telyt

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Re: Worldwide medium format market
« Reply #118 on: May 18, 2013, 09:11:40 AM »

Wouldn't it be nice if 'loaners' were redundant, that cameras just worked... and worked, and you could afford two, just in case.

From my experience, loaners will be redundant once I stop doing stupid things.
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lowep

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Re: Worldwide medium format market
« Reply #119 on: May 18, 2013, 11:03:17 AM »

maybe humans will also be redundant once they stop doing stupid things
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