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Author Topic: Worldwide medium format market  (Read 34762 times)

Steve Hendrix

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Re: Worldwide medium format market
« Reply #20 on: May 11, 2013, 11:24:13 AM »

Take a look at ebay lately?

Looks like a lot of people leaving MF... never seen so many for sale.


I look at eBay all the time. You don't know if an eBay listing means someone is leaving medium format or upgrading but doing so without the manufacturer or dealer trade in offer. Irregardless, people leave medium format and people join medium format. I know more about the ones joining than you know about the ones leaving.

I'll say it again - you do a disservice to this forum and its members with your calculating innuendos and misrepresentations.


Steve Hendrix
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Steve Hendrix
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jerome_m

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Re: Worldwide medium format market
« Reply #21 on: May 11, 2013, 11:35:37 AM »

It took Hasselblad about 4 years to sell this "Ferrari" quantity (499 ex.)

How could it have taken 4 years when it was presented at Photokina 2010 and started shipping end 2010, that is 2 years and a half ago?
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jerome_m

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Re: Worldwide medium format market
« Reply #22 on: May 11, 2013, 11:47:10 AM »

Also, I assume Hassy makes there own lenses, right?

Hasselblad lenses are designed and manufactured by Fuji.
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torger

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Re: Worldwide medium format market
« Reply #23 on: May 11, 2013, 12:44:55 PM »

I think it could be more than those 6000 with a different business model. Pentax shows that a mf camera can be sold at the same price as a pro dslr. If a digital back was sold at that price with reasonably attractive features I think we could see a major growth of the amateur market. I'm not so sure current manufacturers are that interested in such a development though as long as the current model works well enough.
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theguywitha645d

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Re: Worldwide medium format market
« Reply #24 on: May 11, 2013, 12:53:09 PM »

I would not take Leica's promo piece in Forbes too seriously. The numbers are probably wrong.
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FredBGG

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Re: Worldwide medium format market
« Reply #25 on: May 11, 2013, 02:53:41 PM »


BullCrap.

I know for a fact what some of the numbers were for various manufacturers in given years. I expect 6,000 units today to be a reasonable estimate, it wouldn't surprise me if it was even higher. It is probably less than the peak years of MFD sales, which to my estimation likely parked in the 8,000 - 9,000 range. If today is only down 15% - 20% I consider that quite a compelling argument in favor of the staying power of MFD, considering the advances 35mm has made in that same timespan.


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration



If you are so certain it's BullCrap what are the number then. Your a dealer... lets hear what the "official" number is.
Whenever the manufacturers or dealers are asked they avoid the question.
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Worldwide medium format market
« Reply #26 on: May 11, 2013, 03:00:07 PM »

Hasselblad lenses are designed and manufactured by Fuji.
That's sad.  German camera company outsources its lenses to a Japan company when the best lenses in the world come from Germany. 
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Joe Kitchen
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FredBGG

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Re: Worldwide medium format market
« Reply #27 on: May 11, 2013, 03:09:26 PM »

That's sad.  German camera company outsources its lenses to a Japan company when the best lenses in the world come from Germany. 

German camera company????

Hasselblad is from Sweden. Hasselblad lenses used to be made by Carl Zeiss.

When it comes to the Hasselblad H more than just the lens is made in Japan.

Phase One Schneider lenses are made in Japan. The very exact lenses come in two labels... Schneider or Mamiya.

Zeiss 35mm DSLR lenses are manufactured by Cosina fir Zeiss. Cosina also manufactures for some other brands.
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Worldwide medium format market
« Reply #28 on: May 11, 2013, 03:12:42 PM »

German camera company????

Hasselblad is from Sweden. Hasselblad lenses used to be made by Carl Zeiss.

When it comes to the Hasselblad H more than just the lens is made in Japan.

Phase One Schneider lenses are made in Japan. The very exact lenses come in two labels... Schneider or Mamiya.

Zeiss 35mm DSLR lenses are manufactured by Cosina fir Zeiss. Cosina also manufactures for some other brands.
Ok, maybe I don't know enough about suppliers and need to keep my mouth shut.    :-\
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Joe Kitchen
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"Photography is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent moving furniture."  Arnold Newman
“Don't bother just to be better than your contemporaries or predecessors. Try to be better than yourself.”  William Faulkner

design_freak

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Re: Worldwide medium format market
« Reply #29 on: May 11, 2013, 03:14:00 PM »

Hands fall  :(
German company  ???  Sweden !!!
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FredBGG

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Re: Worldwide medium format market
« Reply #30 on: May 11, 2013, 03:16:59 PM »

I would not take Leica's promo piece in Forbes too seriously. The numbers are probably wrong.

I wouldn't take any of the blurb from MFD companies too seriously.
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design_freak

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Re: Worldwide medium format market
« Reply #31 on: May 11, 2013, 03:30:24 PM »

I'd really like it to be a level of 6,000 units per year. But the percentage distribution of the market may be real. Hasselblad was really very strong. But those days are gone. I'm afraid that this gap filled Leica. Group P1 I think might be even more than 50% of the market. Hasselblad will continue to lose. Although they now have a really good product. Lost trust is really hard to recover from.
The question is who will take over the percentages  :D
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Worldwide medium format market
« Reply #32 on: May 11, 2013, 04:41:01 PM »

Hi,

As far as I know the Hasselblad lenses are designed by a Swedish engineer in Gothenburg, but lens group assembly is made in Japan, final assembly with Hasselblad designed shutter used to be at Hasselblad, but times are changing...

Best regards
Erik


That's sad.  German camera company outsources its lenses to a Japan company when the best lenses in the world come from Germany. 

design_freak

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Re: Worldwide medium format market
« Reply #33 on: May 11, 2013, 06:30:14 PM »

Hi,

As far as I know the Hasselblad lenses are designed by a Swedish engineer in Gothenburg, but lens group assembly is made in Japan, final assembly with Hasselblad designed shutter used to be at Hasselblad, but times are changing...

Best regards
Erik



True
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Best regards,
DF

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lowep

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Re: Worldwide medium format market
« Reply #34 on: May 12, 2013, 03:18:59 AM »

I would not take Leica's promo piece in Forbes too seriously. The numbers are probably wrong.

"...core medium format market is roughly 6000..."

wigglespeak
« Last Edit: May 12, 2013, 03:21:05 AM by lowep »
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RVB

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Re: Worldwide medium format market
« Reply #35 on: May 12, 2013, 03:56:26 AM »

Hasselblad lenses are designed and manufactured by Fuji.

Designed by Per Nordlund and manufactured by Fuji....
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Rob C

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Re: Worldwide medium format market
« Reply #36 on: May 12, 2013, 04:29:10 AM »

And when I ownd a couple of 'blads I lived in Scotland and Spain and worked in many corners of the planet, so the pictures from those things belonged where?

Economics, manufacturing ability and capability rule everything. Ever looked at your humble white washing machine, only to notice that, over the years, the whites take on different hues? Not even the bits of the body all seem to come from one supplier/manufacturer and, where they do, they are obviusly produced to a variety of different painting standards.

Basically, I think that the problem with the entire MF concept in digital is this: those cameras really don't spell out medium format as in the relatively large jump in film size that the term was understood to denote back in the day. Were sensors built proportionately larger, maintaining the film format differences and the expected advantages of real estate, then I think that those able to finance such equipment would feel far happier at the debt they take on. The underlying feeling I have is that digital MF isn't: it's an approximation, a half-hearted attempt at going there at huge costs to the traveller.

Rob C

jerome_m

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Re: Worldwide medium format market
« Reply #37 on: May 12, 2013, 04:56:47 AM »

This is an article from Hasselblad about their lens design:
http://www.hasselbladusa.com/media/1663143/the_evolution_of_lenses.pdf

Quote:

With the current arrangement between Hasselblad and Fujinon, Hasselblad is much more in charge of lens design and manufacturing than they have ever been. The V System lenses were designed and manufacured to Hasselblad’s specifications, but their engineers played no part in the actual lens development. While previously Carl Zeiss engineered everything including the shutter, lens design today is a collaborative effort between Hasselblad and Fujinon, with Hasselblad gradually assuming a larger role. For example, work on the latest addition to the HC lens portfolio, the HCD 4/28, started out in Gothenburg, Sweden. Using powerful software for optical design, the characteristics of the new lens could be explored in great detail well before any glass was ground. Fujinon in Saitama City, Japan, then took up the task of refining the lens design and building a prototype series that was put through its paces at Fujinon’s and Hasselblad’s lab.
This division of labor also extends to the manufacturing stage. The central shutter and the iris diaphragm are built and assembled in Gothenburg, then sent to Fujinon where the lenses are ground and the final assembly of the optical, mechanical, and electronic parts takes place.
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Pics2

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Re: Worldwide medium format market
« Reply #38 on: May 12, 2013, 05:10:40 PM »

"We think the core medium format market is roughly 6000 units per year – worldwide, for all brands"

according to Stephan Schulz, Head of Professional Photo at Leica Camera AG, in this interesting Forbes magazine article.

Maybe enough to fill a container?


Yes, but that's very worthy container. Like 3 pools of world's gold.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/afontevecchia/2010/11/19/how-many-olympic-sized-swimming-pools-can-we-fill-with-billionaire-gold/
Talking about 6000 units, we have to take into account that many of MF backs are sold twice (new and refurbished). Phase One is making money on their backs twice, thanks to very high prices of refurbished backs, which I find greedy. I think that refurbished backs should be way cheaper.
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FredBGG

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Re: Worldwide medium format market
« Reply #39 on: May 13, 2013, 03:25:23 AM »

This is an article from Hasselblad about their lens design:
http://www.hasselbladusa.com/media/1663143/the_evolution_of_lenses.pdf

Quote:

With the current arrangement between Hasselblad and Fujinon, Hasselblad is much more in charge of lens design and manufacturing than they have ever been. The V System lenses were designed and manufacured to Hasselblad’s specifications, but their engineers played no part in the actual lens development. While previously Carl Zeiss engineered everything including the shutter, lens design today is a collaborative effort between Hasselblad and Fujinon, with Hasselblad gradually assuming a larger role. For example, work on the latest addition to the HC lens portfolio, the HCD 4/28, started out in Gothenburg, Sweden. Using powerful software for optical design, the characteristics of the new lens could be explored in great detail well before any glass was ground. Fujinon in Saitama City, Japan, then took up the task of refining the lens design and building a prototype series that was put through its paces at Fujinon’s and Hasselblad’s lab.
This division of labor also extends to the manufacturing stage. The central shutter and the iris diaphragm are built and assembled in Gothenburg, then sent to Fujinon where the lenses are ground and the final assembly of the optical, mechanical, and electronic parts takes place.


So a guy on Sweeden does some simulation with "powerful" software and then Fuji does the real job of making the lens.....
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