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Author Topic: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions  (Read 187799 times)

daws

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Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #580 on: May 09, 2013, 10:29:28 pm »

"Creative Cloud members download and install their Apps as Adobe customers always have."

That's what Adobe is saying today.

But as they have proven, Adobe is perfectly capable of changing what they say whenever it suits them, at any time in the future.


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BrianWJH

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Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #581 on: May 09, 2013, 11:22:09 pm »

"Creative Cloud members download and install their Apps as Adobe customers always have."

Yes, but most people are already aware that the "cc" versions are actually desktop downloads and not browser based apps, so no myth there.
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jwstl

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Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #582 on: May 10, 2013, 12:00:21 am »

Could this whole outrage (which I agree with, btw) be summarized in four points?

1. Loss of a traditional method of ownership (or "ownership")

2. Forced move to the cloud, which many detest for a number or reasons

3. Forced rental/lease without the option to buy after a certain period

4. Effective price increase

Number 2 isn't accurate- there's not one cloud feature you have to use-and I'm not that bothered by the price increase. 1 and 3 are the same thing and my only issue. This subscription only is a tough "sell".
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jwstl

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Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #583 on: May 10, 2013, 12:04:06 am »

What I wish they had done was continue to offer a purchase option for software and offer a nice collection of cloud servies for creatives for that recurring money they want so badly.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2013, 12:06:32 am by jwstl »
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daws

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Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #584 on: May 10, 2013, 02:30:36 am »

No, that's how it works -- Adobe's Creative Cloud Subscription Service has already been operating for one year.

You're missing the point. Which is that Adobe has now made it crystal clear that no matter what they say today, they absolutely cannot be trusted to not change their minds -- and the content, cost and terms of their service -- at any time in the future.



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daws

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Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #585 on: May 10, 2013, 02:41:02 am »

What made you think that Adobe are not free to change the content, cost and terms of their services?

What made you think that anything Adobe tells you can be trusted to be the truth?
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #586 on: May 10, 2013, 03:18:05 am »

Could this whole outrage (which I agree with, btw) be summarized in four points?

1. Loss of a traditional method of ownership (or "ownership")

2. Forced move to the cloud, which many detest for a number or reasons

3. Forced rental/lease without the option to buy after a certain period

4. Effective price increase


5. Utter contempt for a loyal user base.

6. No longer a partner, but a threat for that part of the user base that
    spawns a huge industry of resellers/books/tutorials/workshops/plug-ins/etc.

Cheers,
Bart

P.S. the price increase is huge, as people have yet to realize. Not only is it in double digit percentages (even worse for Non-USA residents), and therefore disruptive, but it is not the only subscription based item. Soon people will be spending a significant amount of their monthly overhead cost on such schemes. Before long, our operating systems will only run on a subscription base, if this is tolerated. Ransomware indeed.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2013, 06:35:20 am by BartvanderWolf »
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tom b

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Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #587 on: May 10, 2013, 03:22:11 am »

One of the advantages of CC is that Adobe has made Australian prices the same as US. This is significant as there was a price difference for one of the suites of $1000. Adobe was asked to front the Australian parliament over its pricing.

Cheers,
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Tom Brown

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Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #588 on: May 10, 2013, 03:52:45 am »

What made you think that anything Adobe tells you can be trusted to be the truth?


And to support this post:

http://prodesigntools.com/when-adobe-cs7-and-cs6-5-coming-out.html

Adobe changed their mind a little during these few months....
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john beardsworth

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Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #589 on: May 10, 2013, 03:58:32 am »

My expectations of Adobe Systems Incorporated are that they will provide software as described, under license conditions as described -- and they have.
A line of argument that can justify any behaviour whatsoever and doesn't invalidate people's objections. Maybe you should go back to trying to understand the humour in that cartoon....
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Chris Pollock

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Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #590 on: May 10, 2013, 05:51:10 am »

Unless Adobe shuts down the activation servers, in which case CS6 will not run (without a crack).  The perpetual license does not insualte you from all bad things.
That is true, and it does worry me, but I imagine that Adobe would be in serious trouble if they dishonoured software licences that they'd already sold. Even if they managed to find a legal loophole that enabled them to do so without being sued, their credibility as a legitimate company would be destroyed.

With the rental model, Adobe can legally raise the price as high as they want, and revoke our access if we don't pay up. That's certainly a lot less safe than a perpetual licence.
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graeme

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Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #591 on: May 10, 2013, 07:45:43 am »

I've been using PS since PS5. I've generally upgraded every second version, not just for reasons of expense but also because I find learning new software interfaces / features to be time ( & money ) consuming: I'd rather be using the tools I already have in a creative or profitable way.

Before the release of CS6 it was Adobe announced that it would not be possible to upgrade from more than one version back. About the same time an upgrade to Apples OS was announced and it seemed that my 2007 Mac was too old for this update ( I used to update OS's every other version as well ).

I was initially a bit dismayed but after thinking about it came to these conclusions:

1. I'm perfectly happy with PS CS5, does everything I need it to.

2. I'm perfectly happy with OSX 10.6 ( as are millions of other - it's said to have become 'Apple's XP' ), does everything I need it to.

3. I'm happy enough with my Mac Pro ( a little slow with Lightroom but then so am I at this stage of my learning curve ), does everything I need it to.

4. I can't be bothered to learn any new software right now - other stuff to deal with at the mo'.

5. I'm also perfectly happy with my 2 year old Canon 60D. Of course plenty on this forum will tell me that Canon sensor tech etc lags woefully behind the competition. Doesn't matter, it's good enough. Would have been unbelievable 10 years ago - great  A3+ prints ( A2 even ) from a reasonably priced SLR with a decent lens stuck on it.

 Nope, I'm off the treadmill for a while: No gear or software purchases for a few years. ( There is one lens I quite fancy.....). I'm just going to use the stuff I've got as well as possible. The constant upgrading that we're supposed to engage in must become counterproductive at some point: Going from PS CS3 to CS5 was hard work. Can you imagine pulling say a woodworker out of his workshop and putting him in a new shop with different layout, hand and power tools every 18 months. It  wouldn't matter if the new tools were better or more powerful, he'd just never have time to get into them properly.

Would any of history's great painters have achieved as much if they'd been constantly 'upgrading' their materials / tools.

Of course I will end up 'upgrading' at some point but hopefully the present crap storm will have passed by then.

Re: CC. Well as one poster pointed out the 'Cloud' bit is irrelevant - its actually a change from buying to renting software ( at a higher price ). Yeah I know, in legal terms we've never owned the software, but in practical terms the 'perpetual' license was as good as ownership. I'm not angry - Adobe have the right to do this -I'm just not buying into it.

Not sure if I've earned the hallowed title of 'Pro' ( oh doesn't that give you a tingle ) or not, but my purchases of Adobe software have always been business not personal ones...

...Jeff?

Regards

Graeme

PS  Re: 'Pro': Van Gogh only sold one painting as far as I know - bloody amateur.
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Gulag

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Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #592 on: May 10, 2013, 01:12:30 pm »

I still use the laptop that was purchased from Dell back in 2005, and it rocks. No need to believe any hype put out by corporate marketing depts.

 
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"Photography is our exorcism. Primitive society had its masks, bourgeois society its mirrors. We have our images."

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Gothmoth

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Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #593 on: May 10, 2013, 01:56:15 pm »


Quote
Where does it say that Adobe Systems Incorporated gave up their freedom to change previously announced plans?

read more about legal issues here:

http://macperformanceguide.com/blog/2013/20130508_1a-Adobe-legal-agreement.html
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kencameron

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Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #594 on: May 10, 2013, 05:28:56 pm »

afaict history's great painters did constantly upgrade their materials -- new synthetic pigments ...etc
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Ken Cameron

Chris Pollock

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Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #595 on: May 10, 2013, 06:40:04 pm »

One of the advantages of CC is that Adobe has made Australian prices the same as US. This is significant as there was a price difference for one of the suites of $1000. Adobe was asked to front the Australian parliament over its pricing.
They haven't reduced the Australian price, they've just increased it less than the American ones. I paid $307 for each of my last two Photoshop upgrades, which works out to just over 15 months rent at the current price. Even at the rip-off Australian upgrade price, you'd still pay less to own the software and upgrade at every new version than you'd pay to rent it. If you want a few of the CS applications the new pricing may admittedly save you money.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2013, 06:45:02 pm by Chris Pollock »
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kencameron

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Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #596 on: May 10, 2013, 08:05:46 pm »



I agree; they probably didn't upgrade their materials while taking a bathroom break, debauchery break, breakfast break, sleeping, ... or when no upgrades were available...

I'm so pleased that we have that correction in-place ;)
Outstanding diversionary move, even by your standards, Isaac, and your standards are high. One example of a change of artistic technology in the entire 19th century is not evidence of constant change, as you almost certainly know but of course could never admit. I am beginning to see a pattern here.
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Ken Cameron

Peter Le

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Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #597 on: May 10, 2013, 08:33:03 pm »

     So Isaac.......who are you really......what is your position at Adobe. You seem to have taken this on as a personal crusade.......
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kencameron

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Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #598 on: May 10, 2013, 08:40:26 pm »

Happy now? :-)
Yes, thanks, and apologies if my tone became narky. My original "one line" correction was as discreet as I could possibly make it, but I think worth making, as the the topic is an interesting one. A couple of observations. Painters' studios are sometimes preserved after their deaths, and provide a record of their use of materials. I am always struck by the number and variety of brushes and half-squeezed paint tubes and wonder if these are area where they do look for improvements, constant or otherwise, or whether they just don't do garbage disposal. I also wonder whether great photographers actually do constantly change their tools - I suspect it may be less often than many amateurs.

This is all very OT, I know, but I think the topic can stand it. Enough said.
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Ken Cameron

Isaac

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Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #599 on: May 10, 2013, 10:41:30 pm »

...what is your position at Adobe. You seem to have taken this on as a personal crusade...

No connection to Adobe Systems Incorporated.
No personal crusade.

Like someone said in one of these discussion threads - there's enough not to like about the Adobe announcement without endlessly repeating misunderstandings, misinformation and cynical speculation.
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