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Author Topic: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions  (Read 187805 times)

Schewe

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Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #300 on: May 08, 2013, 01:24:57 am »

And I have "prolly" spent my last $$ on the "Doode" dude's various Adobe publications & videos.

Ok, bye now...

(dupe post from the posting you made in the wrong forum)
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pfigen

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Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #301 on: May 08, 2013, 01:27:31 am »

I think that the ironic thing here is that the old licensing model is being referred to as the Perpetual model, when, in reality, it's the new subscription model that is the one that is truly perpetual.
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daws

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Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #302 on: May 08, 2013, 01:57:38 am »

I seriously couldn't care less what my credibility may or may not be. I just don't care what people think. Sorry, maybe that's a character flaw (not in my mind :~), but guess what, I don't care...it means nothing to me...zilch, zero, nada, nothing. Get it?

We get it. You've made it exceedingly clear that you don't care in the slightest what any of us think of you.

More importantly, in your role of LuLa guru, unofficial Adobe spokesman and Adobe defender, you've also made it exceedingly clear what you think of those of us who have a different opinion than yours.





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Schewe

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Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #303 on: May 08, 2013, 02:01:27 am »

More importantly, in your role of LuLa guru, unofficial Adobe spokesman and Adobe defender, you've also made it exceedingly clear what you think of those of us who have a different opinion than yours.

Cool, so you get it?

Then my job here is done :~)
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Schewe

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Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #304 on: May 08, 2013, 02:03:53 am »

I think that the ironic thing here is that the old licensing model is being referred to as the Perpetual model, when, in reality, it's the new subscription model that is the one that is truly perpetual.

Yeah, I was wondering when somebody would notice...yes, the new model is; you need to license (and pay) in perpetuity...
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #305 on: May 08, 2013, 02:51:15 am »

Get a hold of yourselves...this ain't the end of the world...a meteor is not on a direct path to crash on Earth (as far as I know), nobody has assassinated the President, North Korea has not launched missiles to hit Austin, TX.

Jeeesh, get a grip on yourselves...chill out, take a pill, read a book, have a life. If what Adobe does or doesn't do is ruining your life, how good was your life to begin with? Seriously, get over yourselves. It ain't like Adobe has been discovered to be involved with human trafficking or pedifilia...all they are trying to do is exploit the results of their efforts–their art (and make some money for their shareholders).

Cool. By your recommendation, we should just get screwed happily by our solution providers and focus on a zen emptiness, right?

I assume your recommendation will remain the same in 3 years when the monthly subscription is raised 20%, leveraging the fact that customers will then need to keep paying just to be able to open their files...

That makes a lot of sense.

You see, a collateral damage of the present decision is that Adobe has proven us with utmost clarity that they can and will screw us. Where does it stop?

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: May 08, 2013, 02:53:05 am by BernardLanguillier »
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Tim Lookingbill

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Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #306 on: May 08, 2013, 03:26:29 am »

I've been doing some investigating on just why Adobe is going headlong with this Cloud subscription route. Tell me if I've got it right or way off...

According to Adobe's Investor Relations Data sheet:


http://wwwimages.adobe.com/www.adobe.com/content/dam/Adobe/en/investor-relations/PDFs/Updated_ADBE_Q4_12_IR_Datasheet.pdf


"Digital Media" made up 70% of their total revenue for fiscal year 2012. Look carefully at what comprises the "Digital Media" segment of their business model because it indicates they service a huge corporate client ("Document Services") environment that possibly includes supporting management workflows within interoffice communications between creatives, engineering, marketing, etc. departments that employ huge banks of computers that use Adobe software to conduct business for both private and government operations that may involve but not limited to board meetings and video conferencing.

It's not clear to me what and how those types of businesses use Adobe software but I can only imagine trying to upgrade all those computers spread out and networked across the country, the Cloud subscription of easily downloading new features, updates and newer apps looks like a much more efficient way of doing business with these huge corporate environments than the old bundled licensing upgrades for a set amount of computers.

I'm having to assume a lot of this because I tried to find out what "Digital Media" covers which all I could find online indicates Photos/Video but I'ld also have to include "Document Services". Note the fourth black box on the left labeled "Supplementary Business Unit Data" in the millions. It lists ("Document Services")-Adobe Acrobat and Cloud Services.

Cloud subscription services is more about catering to large businesses than individual users like photographer hobbyists.
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Jack Hogan

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Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #307 on: May 08, 2013, 03:36:45 am »

I watched the first half of Kelby's interview of Adobe's Tom Hogarty on The Grid (http://kelbytv.com/thegrid/2013/05/02/the-grid-episode-94-tom-hogarty-from-adobe/).  Message to Adobe:

Photographers are not complaining about having the option to use the new cloud features.  They are complaining about the ridiculous rental pricing scheme they are being forced to swallow to use the standard product.  There is a lot of FUD being thrown around to muddy up the waters.  Why not simply charge a separate monthly fee for cloud space and features like Dopbox, Google Drive or SkyDrive do?  If people want those features they will be happy to pay for them.  But give us the basic product with a one-off purchase of the unlimited license as it has always been.

And what's this BS about having 'two' different products to support?  The Cloud product works as a stand-alone with no internet access for months on end anyways, so it's one and the same.  And this other BS about Photographers not being as important as 'Corporate' clients?  Any self respecting marketing department should know, understand and cater to its different customer segments - WHERE IS YOUR PHOTOGRAPHY SEGMENT, ADOBE?  And this other BS that Photographers don't count ('a vocal but small % of the installed base')?  All I read on the net are threads like this, where customers who are pissed are no fewer than those who couldn't care less.

Adobe is just trying to justify moving to a business model that is less work and more money for them. If this means raping a segment of their loyal customer base ($29.99/month vs $4.99!) so be it.  When someone uses a dominant market position to gouge even just a minority of its subjects, there is only one thing for those subjects to do: move.

Jack

« Last Edit: May 08, 2013, 03:51:57 am by Jack Hogan »
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kencameron

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Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #308 on: May 08, 2013, 03:50:13 am »

...a very vocal group (but a small % of the installed user-base)...
That sounds plausible. Does anyone outside Adobe have quality information about who is using the different versions of Photoshop, and of Lightroom,  and who is buying upgrades? I am assuming Adobe has reason to believe that its decision won't lose it money and that seems to suggest that it is mostly interested in the professional and hence tax-deductible (in some countries at least) market for PS. As a hobbyist who decided some time ago that PS 5.5 would be my last upgrade, I have no personal stake in this, but I might feel differently if Adobe abandoned perpetual licenses for Lightroom. How differently would depend on what they wanted to charge for time-limited licenses. I would probably pay $5 a month, given the possibility (as I understand it) of converting all my images to an appropriate flavor of  DNG and reverting to my current perpetual licence if I wanted to bale out of the Cloud. Or am I missing something there (probably). I don't entirely buy the moral outrage. Adobe provides Lightroom for hobbyists - a good product at a good price.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2013, 03:57:03 am by kencameron »
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Ken Cameron

john beardsworth

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Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #309 on: May 08, 2013, 03:50:32 am »

I've been doing some investigating on just why Adobe is going headlong with this Cloud subscription route. Tell me if I've got it right or way off...

You've not gone way off, but that document doesn't tell us much more than the point you made about 70% of revenue (which isn't the same as bottom line) coming from the Creative Suite products and certainly doesn't explain Adobe's change of direction. You'd need a lot more breakdown about what's in that 70% and about future projections.

It's also worth correcting a misconception, repeated by Jeff, about the switch being because Adobe's revenue recognition requirements conflicted with the need/desire to release product upgrades during the 18-24 month cycle. A simpler solution to that issue (ie that revenues and costs no longer reflected the actual business) would have been to change their accounting policies, not something a listed company would do lightly, but perfectly viable (and yes, I do have the professional qualifications/experience to make that assertion).

John
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #310 on: May 08, 2013, 03:54:45 am »

Thom just wrote on this issue: http://www.bythom.com/

Cheers,
Bernard

Tim Lookingbill

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Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #311 on: May 08, 2013, 03:59:03 am »

Quote
And what's this BS about having 'two' different products to support?

The Cloud subscription is just a different and more efficient software distribution strategy.

And I'll bet the pricing strategy may be setup in a way that will allow it to be tweaked, adapted or negotiated further down the road. At least that's how I'ld do it.

I'm not going to be making monthly payments for hobbyist usage of photo editing software and I think that's what Adobe is willing to deal with so they can cater to networked corporate clients who have to upgrade banks of computers that use Adobe software.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2013, 04:21:21 am by tlooknbill »
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Tim Lookingbill

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Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #312 on: May 08, 2013, 04:03:48 am »

Quote
You'd need a lot more breakdown about what's in that 70% and about future projections.

Scroll down to the second page where it lists product classifications for "Digital Media" and "Marketing" segments. It comprises a ton of obscurely named software I've never heard of or used as a photographer. Clearly Photos/Videos is not just what "Digital Media" stands for. Adobe is getting knee deep in servicing corporate workflows with their software. Look at all the weird names that don't tell you what the software does. Note the word "Cloud" is part of the heading of each product segment except "Print & Publishing".

Somebody is using this software and they don't seem to hang out at LuLa.

I find it funny "Pagemaker" is still listed in the "Print and Publishing" product segment.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2013, 04:15:11 am by tlooknbill »
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Rhossydd

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Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #313 on: May 08, 2013, 04:21:54 am »

Scroll down to the second page where it lists product classifications for "Digital Media". It comprises a ton of obscurely named software I've never heard of or used as a photographer. Clearly Photos/Videos is not just what "Digital Media" stands for. Adobe is getting knee deep in servicing corporate workflows with their software. Look at all the weird names that don't tell you what the software does.

Somebody is using this software and they don't seem to hang out at LuLa.
You're right.
Whilst most people think Adobe is all about graphics software, that's all changed since buying Macromedia and the other web annayltic companies they've bought.

I've mentioned this earlier in this thread and on others
I don't want to keep banging on about this but.....I spent last week working at Adobe's EMEA digital marketing summit in London. Having seen how this all the AMC products link together with Creative Cloud it's not difficult to see how for some commercial photographers working via the Cloud could make business sense. It could quite easily become a requirement of employment that they provide their photographs via CC.
The key acronym you're missing, and most photographers aren't aware of it anyway, is AMC = Adobe Marketing Cloud
This is a MASSIVE product set that aims Adobe to be the dominate force in the whole of eCommerce on the internet. Just think about what that's worth!
It's a combination of hosting products, web design products, web analytics and lots more I didn't have the knowledge to grasp fully and they all work together via the cloud. Photoshop is just a little image utility on the side of all this. Don't think AMC and CC are the same, the Creative Cloud is just a sub-set of Marketing Cloud.
They're selling this to THE BIG multi-nationals and it stands to make really serious profits for them if they get it right.

Photographers don't matter to Adobe any more, they've served us and pretty much run out of new features to sell us, the only way to get more out of us is to tie people into long term subscriptions.

It really won't make any dent on the revenues if all the photographers that can, move away from Adobe products, the big money will be coming from the likes of Coke, Nike, Ford etc
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john beardsworth

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Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #314 on: May 08, 2013, 04:30:30 am »

"You'd need a lot more breakdown about what's in that 70% and about future projections."

What I meant was you'd need to know how much of that 70% came from x, how much from product y etc. I did look at p2 to see what was in each category. You may not have heard of them, but I've encountered a few in enterprise-scale business. The forms automation stuff will be a big chunk - imagine sending expense reports as PDFs for authorisation. That stuff isn't relevant to the change to a subscription model.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2013, 04:32:22 am by johnbeardy »
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Tim Lookingbill

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Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #315 on: May 08, 2013, 05:04:28 am »

Quote
That stuff isn't relevant to the change to a subscription model.

I'ld think it's relevant to corporate environment operations trying to keep up with upgrading a huge amount of computers and maybe mobile devices.

Like I said this is a distribution issue taking advantage of the interconnectivity of networks. Each of those pieces of software listed require a license to use which can get real expensive and time consuming upgrading a bunch of individual computers. A subscription route makes things easier to manage without having to keep track of license allotment limits for all those computers.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2013, 05:06:31 am by tlooknbill »
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john beardsworth

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Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #316 on: May 08, 2013, 05:26:02 am »

That 30% is relevant to corporate environment operations, not to the change to a subscription-only model that is being discussed in this thread. You can draw some vague parallels like some of that corporate revenue being SAAS and electronic distribution and licensing, but that's about all.
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LKaven

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Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #317 on: May 08, 2013, 05:53:04 am »

I think the developers of actual up-to-date software, such as Nuke, should invest in the still photography market and take the photoshop market.  They've already done what Adobe should have done a decade ago: developed an efficient, well thought-out dataflow architecture for image processing, upon which can be built all manner of abstractions -- including layers and everything that photoshop can do.

Adobe got lazy with photoshop many, many years ago, and have only been just sliding by on sheer entrenchment alone.  This ridiculous program should be rendered extinct once and for all.  Better ideas exist and can be deployed. 

I for one would pony up a year's worth of Adobe subscription fees to the developer who promises to make the next generation of still image processing software, and offers a perpetual license with upgrades.  If a million of us did the same thing, it would underwrite new product development, and we'd be free of Adobe once and for all. 

Chris Pollock

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Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #318 on: May 08, 2013, 06:08:24 am »

I for one expect CS6 to be my final version of Photoshop. I realize that Adobe don't care about losing my business, and in fact will probably be glad to be rid of an unworthy amateur customer like me.

Quite frankly I wouldn't be interested in renting Photoshop if it cost $2.99 a month and they gave you the first year free. The deal breaker, as others have already pointed out, is that with a rental pricing model you lose the ability to open your files if you ever stop paying the rent. (You could use non-proprietary formats like TIFF, but that would mean losing your adjustment layers etc.)

A few years from now, after you've invested countless hours of your time creating Photoshop files, Adobe may well decide to up the monthly price to $49.99, $99.99, or whatever else they think they can get away with. They may even decide to stop renting Photoshop by itself, forcing you to rent their entire software suite for what they deem to be a fair price. You will have no choice but to pay up or lose access to your work. The term "ransomware" comes to mind, except in this case you voluntarily allow yourself to be held to ransom.

To be honest I use Lightroom for most of my work, so I expect to be able to make do with Photoshop CS6 for years to come. I may continue to upgrade Lightroom if Adobe continue to sell it, but I already feel uneasy about investing my time in it. I'll certainly be looking around for any feasible alternative.
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Chris Pollock

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Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #319 on: May 08, 2013, 06:10:49 am »

Adobe got lazy with photoshop many, many years ago, and have only been just sliding by on sheer entrenchment alone.
You certainly have a point there. For example, Photoshop's multithreading support still sucks years after multi-core processors became commonplace.
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