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Author Topic: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions  (Read 117272 times)

jrsforums

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Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #540 on: May 09, 2013, 02:17:39 PM »

Andrew....you are correct...I missed an 'un', which I think makes it clearer

Quote
[quote
I guess you never have any desire or need to  go back an modify a wip image, rather than restarting the raw or modifying the unflattened tiff.  As you know, things like sharpening or blurring in a flattened cannot be easily fix, but are easy in the layered version.

First, the above sentence is in severe need of editing and clarification. I don't know what a wip image is. That said, I can count on one hand the times I've gone back to the original raw and started from scratch. And I've been processing images since 1990! Both for myself and others (for a few years as a service bureau). How's that as a start.[/quote]

So...never go back to the RAW..OK.  Go back to the layered TIFF(PSD)?  

I think that's what everyone is afraid of losing.  I would be more than willing to get "on the (rental) train", if when I wanted/needed to get off, I could retain the processing I had.  

Even if it was just allowed only once.  Would some abuse it, sure....but there's a lot of pirates out there that are doing much worse.  

It also would not be Adobe's big money customers.  It would be the small guy, like me and many others.  People they might lose completely without this option.   Lemme see....I can have none of the pie (Joe average photographer), or a real small part of it....or, I can have a bigger piece of the pie, just by allowing an one time exit strategy.....hmmmm

Actually, truth be told, it is like a breakfast of ham & eggs....the chicken is involved, the pig is committed.  Where I am heading is that while I am quite concerned about PS, I am scared "shyte-less" about the possible/probable direction of Lightroom.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2013, 02:23:24 PM by jrsforums »
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rick_boden

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Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #541 on: May 09, 2013, 02:19:10 PM »

OK, how's this for conspiracy theories: Adobe thinks the current CC pricing (full or just single application) is too high but go for it, see if it sticks. If it does, great, we'll need a 2nd shovel to pickup all that cash. If there's a huge backlash (which is what's happening big time), release a lower price for both and come across as listening to their customers and then perceived (by some) as good guys.

Suppose after say a week of thinking you'll pay $50/19 per month you find out both fall in price by half. Would you then sign on?

I think you're on to something.  In addition to a lower price, Adobe might consider addressing the concerns (not all valid) that people will lose access to their files should they stop their subscriptions.   Perhaps a free application that will let users adjust and flatten existing PSD files and export as Tiffs and Jpegs.
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digitaldog

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Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #542 on: May 09, 2013, 02:23:29 PM »

So...never go back to the RAW..OK.  Go back to the layered TIFF(PSD)?  
Yes.

Quote
I think that's what everyone is afraid of losing.  I would be more than willing to get "on the (rental) train", if when I wanted/needed to get off, I could retain the processing I had.  
I understand that's what they are afraid of losing. They can move forward and not lose or deal with the current data 'as is'. What they can't do is move forward then backwards for what I thought were obvious reasons. Further, as I pointed out but which hasn't been commented on, if you get off the train with those layers, they are going to be inaccessible outside of an Adobe product that edits said layers. If you get on and off the train, before doing so, you better deal with new technology embedded in that data that the older technology can't handle. I discussed ways of doing this. But frankly, this on the train, off the train concept has far more problems than it solves.
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Andrew Rodney
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #543 on: May 09, 2013, 02:25:14 PM »

...concerning CC's target market toward professionals, I'm curious if this is going to reduce the amount of online Adobe app troubleshooting posts and general digital imaging discussions since CC integrates bug fixes and feature additions through the Cloud that seems to require a call to Adobe customer service for any trouble encountered. Is this what the Cloud is designed for with regard to professionals?
Whether you like Microsoft or not (and I've always been a WinOS user) they manage to update Windows, in some cases weekly, to address problems in a dynamic manner.  Their installed base dwarfs Adobe by orders of magnitude.  You also get plenty of help through their website so I think that this is a false analogy.

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I also found some other very interesting "Mashable.com" articles on CC from an interview with Adobe CEO and other articles explaining Adobe's other plans to expand like bringing prime time TV to the internet.

http://mashable.com/2012/11/15/adobe-project-primetime/
Newsflash to Adobe, prime time TV is already on the Internet.

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So with CC, if you want to play with the pros and/or come across or be perceived as a pro (with pro problems for Adobe to deal with), then pay the price with a subscription. As a former professional creative it makes perfect sense.
I am still trying to grasp what new enhancements will be made to photoshop other than incremental and support for new cameras.  


[/quote]
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digitaldog

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Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #544 on: May 09, 2013, 02:28:05 PM »

I think you're on to something.  In addition to a lower price, Adobe might consider addressing the concerns (not all valid) that people will lose access to their files should they stop their subscriptions.  

But they will not lose access to their files, that's a point that needs to be understood. If overnight, CC disappeared from the planet, that might be an issue. If you know you're getting off that train and you know you'll have a backwards compatibles issue in some rare cases, you deal with it before you jump ship. And you only have two options as I see it: Get on an older Adobe train, the likelihood is outside using Smart Collections with new CC processes, your files are not lost and neither were the edits. OR find a different train or mode of transportation then kiss all that away until you flatten a version to feed to that new product.
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Andrew Rodney
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rick_boden

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Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #545 on: May 09, 2013, 02:31:05 PM »

But they will not lose access to their files, that's a point that needs to be understood. If overnight, CC disappeared from the planet, that might be an issue. If you know you're getting off that train and you know you'll have a backwards compatibles issue in some rare cases, you deal with it before you jump ship. And you only have two options as I see it: Get on an older Adobe train, the likelihood is outside using Smart Collections with new CC processes, your files are not lost and neither were the edits. OR find a different train or mode of transportation then kiss all that away until you flatten a version to feed to that new product.

The problem is that you know that but 99% of all those who are up in arms do not.
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digitaldog

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Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #546 on: May 09, 2013, 02:33:54 PM »

The problem is that you know that but 99% of all those who are up in arms do not.
Let's get the message out, only then can people make intelligent decisions to which train they want to ride.

There's plenty of things to dislike about the new scheme where we don't have to whip up additional FUD.
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Andrew Rodney
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JanneAavasalo

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Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #547 on: May 09, 2013, 02:34:59 PM »

I am still trying to grasp what new enhancements will be made to photoshop other than incremental and support for new cameras.  

You hit the reason which is probably far and beyond above the "difficulty in maintaining two versions of the software".

And it probably doesn't just limit to Photoshop. Pretty much every major application of the CS suite is quite mature at least from a feature standpoint.

This leads to no revolutionary innovations, which in turn leads to people and businesses skipping over versions and reluctance to upgrade.

The signs of this have been around with Adobe for ages, for example supporting new cameras in only the new versions of the software effectively making people upgrade if they want to keep hold of a reasonable workflow.
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johnvr

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Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #548 on: May 09, 2013, 02:53:44 PM »

It is the key here, but freezing the version as such doesn't work. This way you could get a subscription for a month, then "freeze" it and you'd have a new version for 20$. Not going to work.

What could work would be the "cell phone" approach, where you pay monthly for a phone & service and at the end of the subscription you'd own the phone. This would need versioning in predictable intervals inside the CC system and different subscription plans with limited duration. At the end you could renew the subscription and start paying for the next version and its updates within CC.

But that again would wreck the whole continuous update scheme Adobe has intended. It's a tough nut to crack, I'll give them that.

Not really. They will allow people in CC not to upgrade. This means they will also have to cater to those people who decide against several upgrades and then a year or so later, process all the upgrades they skipped. If they can do that in CC for subscribers, then they can do it for others.
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rick_boden

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Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #549 on: May 09, 2013, 03:00:46 PM »

You hit the reason which is probably far and beyond above the "difficulty in maintaining two versions of the software".

And it probably doesn't just limit to Photoshop. Pretty much every major application of the CS suite is quite mature at least from a feature standpoint.

This leads to no revolutionary innovations, which in turn leads to people and businesses skipping over versions and reluctance to upgrade.

The signs of this have been around with Adobe for ages, for example supporting new cameras in only the new versions of the software effectively making people upgrade if they want to keep hold of a reasonable workflow.

As an aerial photographer I can tell you that the new "anti-blur" feature could be huge. 
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Peter McLennan

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Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #550 on: May 09, 2013, 03:01:42 PM »


To that i reply: Have you ever tried the product help?

Regularly.  It's never failed me.  That and the community help.

To that I reply (and as I asked) have you ever watched the Adobe TV tutorials?  You didn't answer.
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Jim Sanderson

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Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #551 on: May 09, 2013, 03:12:34 PM »

"Whatever else, I'll forgive almost anything in exchange for having ACR as an in-application Photoshop filter.  Woohoo!  That's been at the top of my wish list for a long time."

Russell Brown has a script that came out with CS6 that allows you to do just that. I've been using it since CS6 came out. It is handy.
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JanneAavasalo

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Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #552 on: May 09, 2013, 03:14:57 PM »

As an aerial photographer I can tell you that the new "anti-blur" feature could be huge. 

They still are trying to persuade people to upgrade, only now instead of CS7 you'll go to CC(7).

And I'm not saying that there won't be innovations anymore within the franchise, but they don't have to push themselves and these techniques for people to upgrade anymore. Which can also be a good thing mind you.

Also innovations like the anti-blur filter is why people wouldn't like to move to other products or stay with the old CS versions.
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JanneAavasalo

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Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #553 on: May 09, 2013, 03:22:49 PM »

Not really. They will allow people in CC not to upgrade. This means they will also have to cater to those people who decide against several upgrades and then a year or so later, process all the upgrades they skipped. If they can do that in CC for subscribers, then they can do it for others.

But for the "cell phone" example I gave, you'd need major versions at somewhat regular intervals and I'm pretty sure that it's something they are going to steer away from.

What I mean is that you need a distinct version and the updates to that version with a "deadline" and a roll to the next major version after that. Otherwise you'd subscribe to CC, freeze the version you have and after they come up with worthwhile updates, you could renew the subscription and freeze it after that again. That would lead to pretty much the same situation where Adobe has been now.
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Gerald Barber

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Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #554 on: May 09, 2013, 03:43:16 PM »

I understand that's what you want. I'd like it too. It isn't in the works and I wouldn’t hold your breath. If that was how it worked, it wouldn't be a subscription.

sub·scrip·tion 
/səbˈskripSHən/
Noun
The action of making or agreeing to make an advance payment in order to receive or participate in something.
An arrangement by which access is granted to an online service.


I'm don't know if Adobe would consider this but there really is nothing in a subscription model, as defined above, that precludes it. If fact, many software companies, including Microsoft, have subscription programs that do exactly this. If you want an example, check out MSDN (Microsoft Software Developer Network). This program enables the subscriber (person who makes "an advance payment to receive or participate in something") to connect to a Microsoft server ("access is granted to an online service") to download software and license keys during the term of their subscription. If the subscriber doesn't renew the subscription at the end of the term, they lose access to the server and to any subsequent software programs/upgrades made available on the server but they can continue to use, in perpetuity, any software that they acquired from the program during the term of their subscription.
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Gerald Barber

digitaldog

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Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #555 on: May 09, 2013, 03:47:16 PM »

If the subscriber doesn't renew the subscription at the end of the term, they lose access to the server and to any subsequent software programs/upgrades made available on the server but they can continue to use, in perpetuity, any software that they acquired from the program during the term of their subscription.

Just continuing to play devils advocate (cause Adobe will too): the same could be said of CC. You no longer have access to the software, you always have access to the documents you created with the software prior to cancelation of subscription of software.

But yes, Adobe could and probably should alter the restrictions of their current CC schema.
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Andrew Rodney
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BartvanderWolf

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Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #556 on: May 09, 2013, 03:52:41 PM »

As an aerial photographer I can tell you that the new "anti-blur" feature could be huge. 

Hi Rick,

You mean something like this, or this?

Cheers,
Bart
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #557 on: May 09, 2013, 03:54:14 PM »

A few dozen?  You don't get out much, Mark?

Well, since you obviously get out much more than I do, what's your estimate?
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Gerald Barber

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Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #558 on: May 09, 2013, 04:02:04 PM »

Just continuing to play devils advocate (cause Adobe will too): the same could be said of CC. You no longer have access to the software, you always have access to the documents you created with the software prior to cancelation of subscription of software.

But yes, Adobe could and probably should alter the restrictions of their current CC schema.

But there's a difference. With the Adobe model I retain access to the document (photographic image in some format) but not the software used to develop/enhance the document. With MSDN model, the subscriber retains access to not only the document (software code, etc) but all the software used to develop that document if/when they stop subscribing to the service. The only thing they lose is access to future updates.

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to argue with you. We both agree that Adobe "could and probably should alter the restrictions" and I also think that the chances of them doing this, short of a major backlash that impacts their bottom line, is very remote.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2013, 04:03:37 PM by JerryB »
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Gerald Barber

Colorwave

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Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #559 on: May 09, 2013, 04:16:00 PM »

Well, since you obviously get out much more than I do, what's your estimate?

Sorry, I didn't mean to be antagonistic in my tone, Mark (we already have a well-respected resident put down artist), but "dozens" seemed hyperbolically small to me.  Every photo and tech-centric site that allows for commenting I've seen is buzzing with negative commentary.  The change.org petition is up to over 3,700 signatures already and gaining steam.  Obviously, that's still a trivial number at this point, though, in the grand scheme of things for Adobe.

I'm not qualified to guess at any real numbers, but it is certainly over the threshold of qualifying as a shit storm.  I have just enough morbid curiosity to keep tabs on this thread a bit, but it is rapidly getting to be a battle of entrenched iOs vs. Android or Mac vs. PC type bickering, so I'm loosing interest.

Ultimately whether all of this is within the expected parameters of negative reaction that Adobe was obviously bracing for, I don't know.  At some level of controversy, they will certainly be willing to reexamine their decision.  If they loose 40% of their user base that is on the perpetual license bandwagon as customers, but bring in twice the revenue with the remaining 60%, I'm sure they will write this all off as the cost of doing business and laugh their way to the bank.

Ancillary beneficiaries:  Michael, DPReview, and other sites that are reaping the benefit of a massive uptick in page views!
« Last Edit: May 09, 2013, 04:18:17 PM by Colorwave »
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