Pages: 1 ... 10 11 [12] 13 14 ... 37   Go Down

Author Topic: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions  (Read 188225 times)

Mark D Segal

  • Contributor
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12512
    • http://www.markdsegal.com
Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #220 on: May 07, 2013, 05:34:00 pm »

In Europe, the rates are even higher, as has been pointed out above, even for the English language version. This whole matter is very disappointing and alienating.

Maybe in Europe VAT needs to be factored in - are the European prices more than 20% greater than the US prices?
Logged
Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....."

john beardsworth

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4755
    • My photography site
Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #221 on: May 07, 2013, 05:34:36 pm »

I have Photoshop CS6, standard version (not the extended).  If I go to the cloud as an individual and want only Photoshop CC, it seemed to me that the $9.99/month promotion would obtain for a year, followed by an increase to the $19.99/month cost.

The Adobe chat guy started by saying that was so, but then said I would have to get the $29.99/month plan, and then go to an increase from that after a year.

Does anybody here know for sure?
That all looks right. You can certainly see the business logic.
Logged

Rhossydd

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3369
    • http://www.paulholman.com
Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #222 on: May 07, 2013, 05:45:22 pm »

Maybe in Europe VAT needs to be factored in - are the European prices more than 20% greater than the US prices?
Adobe quote £17.58/month inc vat for a single app = $27.22 at today's exchange rate
Logged

s4e

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 37
Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #223 on: May 07, 2013, 05:54:50 pm »

I'm not clear on what happens after you cancel a subscription.  IF it leaves you with a working copy but stops all future enhancements it will be much better received in the marketplace.   If it turns off and you're not able to use it, forcing you back to CS6 then it will likely open the market for competition.

I think this is the key question and at the moment it seems like your program will stop working! And if you use the program only a few times a month it's not something you want to rent forever!

People who use Photoshop proffesionally are happy but for amateurs this really sucks  >:(
Logged

jrsforums

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1288
Logged
John

jrsforums

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1288
Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #225 on: May 07, 2013, 06:07:02 pm »

JRS, my workflow is this: I ingest the images from the camera card to folders bespoke per subject on my hard-drive, which is backed-up with Time Machine. And those remain "forever". I import them into the LR catalog using the option to leave them where they are. All that does is create a catalog "shortcut" and a thumbnail in LR for reviewing the images and keeping them organized within LR. Whatever happens to LR, the original raw files are still present and properly organized in my hard-drive. So if LR disappeared tomorrow, the images and their organization are unaffected. To process the images, I don't DNG them; I keep the OEM raw format and copy all changes to XMP sidecars. Those sidecars remain as permanent files with their corresponding images on my drive. ANY application that can, or at some time in the future can be made to read that XMP data will be able to use it. So yes, loosing LR for this function may be problematic, but not necessarily a train-smash. And once I've printed the photos I consider keepers that deserve printing, realistcally how often will I want to come back to how many of those files in the future? I'll worry about LR if and when the time comes. For now I'm pretty relaxed about it. There are things in life to lose sleep over but this isn't one of them - yet.

OK...workflows not that different.  Guess I'm just paranoid :-)

Actually, I don't really anticipate Adobe's demise any more than I expect the disappearance of existing RAW support.  Lose sleep...NO....be watchful?...I think we all need to be wary about protecting our assets.
Logged
John

AFairley

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1486
Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #226 on: May 07, 2013, 06:08:43 pm »

An interesting view from CD Tobie:

http://cdtobie.wordpress.com/2013/05/07/adobe-angst-and-the-creative-cloud/


Pish.  The post is pure apologism.  As if Adobe is going to go belly up if they don't move to a subscription only model.  This is simply about maximizing profits.  And one more thing, the Adobe press release?  That's all corporate doublespeak for "we've figured out a way to make more money."  Now, there's nothing wrong with wanting to make more money, as long as you do it ethically, and as far as I can see there is nothing unethical about Adobe changing its business model.  But Adobe shouldn't expect that the small user who really likes their product and has just been priced out of the marketplace won't be upset as hell. 
« Last Edit: May 07, 2013, 06:18:20 pm by AFairley »
Logged

Schewe

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6229
    • http:www.schewephoto.com
Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #227 on: May 07, 2013, 06:11:30 pm »

To be honest I was surprised by his response.  And I understand he might hold allegiances with Adobe in one capacity or the other so it's not my intention to upset him or anyone else.  But as adults we should deal in the reality of the situation and that means we should expect lawsuits on one side and poor business behaviour on the other.  

The person you wrote this to is somebody who I ignore on LuLa, so I won't bother to respond to his bullshit, however, regarding this and my original response to YOU however, I will.

You wrote: "I wouldn't be surprised if an antitrust suit is filed.

Meanwhile.. how long before Adobe declares our current licenses null and void and finds a way to disable them.  They're not past silent updates..
"

Ignoring the lawsuit aspect, what you wrote about Adobe "declaring the current licenses null and void" was pure unadulterated FUD. That kinda bullshit isn't in the least bit useful. And Adobe has a long history of going out of it's way for customers as proven by the release of non-activation serial numbers for Photoshop CS2. Yes, they cut the activation servers for CS2 because of technical and security reasons. They could have simply walked away and said, sorry, can't help you, but an upgrade but they didn't. At great effort they went out of their way to address the issue and solve users problems. To me, that indicates that Adobe doesn't have an evil conspiracy in place to screw all the users of current perpetual licenses.

So, what leads you to speculate that Adobe would declare current licenses null and void? Do you honestly think that would happen? Do you honestly think so poorly about Adobe that you would float this kind of FUD? If you have a shred of evidence that indicates Adobe would declare the licenses null and void, present it or shut up about it. I think your assumption of motives actually tells far more about you than it does Adobe...people with poor ethics assume poor ethics in others.

As for why I defend Adobe? Because, on this forum, they can't defend themselves...but I can. So, I do. What are my motives? I have a lot of friends at Adobe. I know the people of Adobe very well. I've watched as they have bent over backwards over the years to try to do the "right thing" and have a bunch of yahoos sniping from the sidelines spouting FUD, bullshit and whatever. So, yes, I like to set the records straight. If that pisses you off, screw you, ya know?

If you want to discuss the the facts (not wild speculations), I'm all in...otherwise, move on, find someplace else to hang your hat.
Logged

yaredna

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 52
Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #228 on: May 07, 2013, 06:15:08 pm »

An interesting view from CD Tobie:

http://cdtobie.wordpress.com/2013/05/07/adobe-angst-and-the-creative-cloud/

Yep, and a more interesting rebuttal ! Check the website again...
Logged

Joe S

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 100
Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #229 on: May 07, 2013, 06:24:57 pm »

The trickle down factors of adobe's action are interesting.    I have cs6 and will continue to use it.   I will never rent any software.  I avoid renting as a general policy where I can.  I have been considering the nic package but now will definitely pass on it.   I would not buy photokit sharpener today.   I won't buy any plugins for a software that may not have a future for me.   In a year or two I will be less likely to buy the next new tempting wonder camera if I have to seek out other raw conversion software.   Photoshop has been the product that has bound this whole digital transformation together and now it is going where I won't follow.  I don't know if its a legal monopoly but it sure smells like a practical one.  
Logged

jrsforums

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1288
Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #230 on: May 07, 2013, 06:27:17 pm »

The person you wrote this to is somebody who I ignore on LuLa, so I won't bother to respond to his bullshit, however, regarding this and my original response to YOU however, I will.

Always consistent in your irrational, ill thought out, blusterous remarks...  ;D

Quote
As for why I defend Adobe? Because, on this forum, they can't defend themselves...but I can. So, I do. What are my motives? I have a lot of friends at Adobe. I know the people of Adobe very well. I've watched as they have bent over backwards over the years to try to do the "right thing" and have a bunch of yahoos sniping from the sidelines spouting FUD, bullshit and whatever. So, yes, I like to set the records straight. If that pisses you off, screw you, ya know?

If you want to discuss the the facts (not wild speculations), I'm all in...otherwise, move on, find someplace else to hang your hat.

Be honest...for once.  You have a lucrative business relationship with Adobe.  You are knowledgable, but, over the years have taken positions that were in error and try to blow down other views with comments like, "...If that pisses you off, screw you..."  Then later, when you finally come around and see that the other people's views were correct, you act like you were the creator of the view.  

You act like a god...a guru...but you are no more than a blowhard.  If you had any respect for yourself you would show some respect for others.  

Different opinions make the world go around.  It does not hurt to be respectful of the opinions of others and maintain a respectful dialog
« Last Edit: May 07, 2013, 06:30:34 pm by jrsforums »
Logged
John

s4e

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 37
Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #231 on: May 07, 2013, 06:29:01 pm »

...
As for why I defend Adobe? Because, on this forum, they can't defend themselves...but I can. So, I do. What are my motives? I have a lot of friends at Adobe. I know the people of Adobe very well. I've watched as they have bent over backwards over the years to try to do the "right thing" and have a bunch of yahoos sniping from the sidelines spouting FUD, bullshit and whatever. So, yes, I like to set the records straight. If that pisses you off, screw you, ya know?

If you want to discuss the the facts (not wild speculations), I'm all in...otherwise, move on, find someplace else to hang your hat.

It's fine that you correct wrong information or speculation.
But I must say I'm disappointed that you not seems see anything bad about this move for a lot of users... You will earn a lot more respect if you in this situation use your authority to push Adobe in a better direction to support many of your own customers...
  
Logged

LesPalenik

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5339
    • advantica blog
Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #232 on: May 07, 2013, 07:00:05 pm »

I am thinking of starting a Facebook page focused on raising awareness about this issue...

Any idea on how to call it?

Cheers,
Bernard


PSsed off
Logged

Schewe

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6229
    • http:www.schewephoto.com
Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #233 on: May 07, 2013, 07:03:12 pm »

But I must say I'm disappointed that you not seems see anything bad about this move for a lot of users... You will earn a lot more respect if you in this situation use your authority to push Adobe in a better direction to support many of your own customers... 

Sorry to disappoint you but, I actually agree with the direction Adobe is going. I think it makes good technical sense to get out of the 18-24 month dev cycle and out from underneath the accounting constraints caused by revenue recognition restrictions that will allow the engineers to add new features when you are ready instead of waiting till the next big product launch. Trying to maintain both a subscription model AND a perpetual model is unsustainable...engineering had all sorts of problems with the recent 13.1/13.0.4 updates and the engineering staff gave up their holidays to pitch in and fix them. That was the end of the idea of trying to maintain both models.

As far as pushing Adobe in a "better direction to support many of your own customers" exactly who do you think are my customers? I don't have any customers....I gave up working for clients years ago. If you are referring to software or video tutorials, sorry, that's not my responsibility.

As I said, I think Adobe is doing the right thing for Adobe. Yes, I understand a lot of people are pissed–I get it. Adobe didn't do this simply to piss of customers. I get that this will drive a lot of people to try to get away from Photoshop. More power to them I really do wish them good fortune finding something to replace Photoshop. I do 90%+ of my work in Lightroom...if push came to shove, I could keep using older version of Photoshop for years...I choose not to.

I've had the Master Collection subscription for over a year with only one small burp caused by trying to run a beta version of Photoshop CC that wiped out my main subscription.

The ROI for me makes the CC model useful since I do a lot of work with a lot of apps (although I still don't do video).

Sorry, this really isn't a hill worth dying on. You all have a choice–do or don't go for the Creative Cloud version. Just understand that it's highly unlikely that Adobe will back down from the paradigm shift. So far this new models has just been too successful for Adobe–even if it does piss of some people. You really can't please all the people all the time, foolish to even try :~)
Logged

Rand47

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1882
Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #234 on: May 07, 2013, 07:24:08 pm »

Jeff,

Do you see Adobe going CC with Lightroom?

Rand
Logged
Rand Scott Adams

Jim Pascoe

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1131
    • http://www.jimpascoe.co.uk
Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #235 on: May 07, 2013, 07:32:21 pm »

Surely for the vast majority of us this just comes down to price.  If Adobe charged $20 a year everyone would be blissfully happy.  If they charged $100 a month, almost nobody would subscribe.  So it's mainly a price thing. Do you agree?

Jim
Logged

jrsforums

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1288
Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #236 on: May 07, 2013, 07:38:43 pm »

Trying to maintain both a subscription model AND a perpetual model is unsustainable...engineering had all sorts of problems with the recent 13.1/13.0.4 updates and the engineering staff gave up their holidays to pitch in and fix them.

I understand the problem with different builds.

Help us understand why Adobe feels they need to have different builds for subscription and sustainable?

It sounds like a problem of their own causing.
Logged
John

Mark D Segal

  • Contributor
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12512
    • http://www.markdsegal.com
Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #237 on: May 07, 2013, 07:41:31 pm »

Surely for the vast majority of us this just comes down to price.  If Adobe charged $20 a year everyone would be blissfully happy.  If they charged $100 a month, almost nobody would subscribe.  So it's mainly a price thing. Do you agree?

Jim

No I don't. Of course price matters, but there may also be some workflow implications for some people down the road.
Logged
Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....."

yaredna

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 52
Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #238 on: May 07, 2013, 07:45:21 pm »

Surely for the vast majority of us this just comes down to price.  If Adobe charged $20 a year everyone would be blissfully happy.  If they charged $100 a month, almost nobody would subscribe.  So it's mainly a price thing. Do you agree?

Jim

Somehow I agree with your statement.

The software was difficult to accept at $699 (initial purchase) + $149 every 24 months... then it became $199 every 18 months, and people started skipping versions... because the value of the innovations from one version to the other were limited to many photographers (landscape, wedding, portrait, studio...).

The model is now $360/year, except the first year for existing users. That's a little too steep. We are afraid that as the base of users will shrink, so the ecosystem (books, tutorial, plug-ins, presets....) . In the short term, maybe good for Adobe. Not a single company survived by alienating a large set of its customer base. Autodesk can do this, their customer base has always been more limited. Photoshop's strength was its ecosystem as much as its features. Kill the ecosystem, and there is so much more innovation you can squeeze out of photo editing.

Yep, overall a question of price, that will shrink the base, and kill the ecosystem.

You may want to disregard Jeff's comments: he is too close to the company to see straight, and even understand his own words. Shame on me for purchasing the videos he produced with Michael: he has utmost disrespect for people who respected him. Closing a chapter, and moving on.
Logged

yaredna

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 52
Re: Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions
« Reply #239 on: May 07, 2013, 07:54:10 pm »

...

As I said, I think Adobe is doing the right thing for Adobe. Yes, I understand a lot of people are pissed–I get it. Adobe didn't do this simply to piss of customers. ....

...Just understand that it's highly unlikely that Adobe will back down from the paradigm shift. So far this new models has just been too successful for Adobe–even if it does piss of some people. You really can't please all the people all the time, foolish to even try :~)

If Adobe's marketing team is happy with this model, great. Let's see their results in the next quarters, and a year from now, when the dust settles. Pissing-off a trove of customers has never bode well for companies in the long-run...  Monopolies feed arrogance, and arrogance kills.

And regarding your claim of not having customers?   --- http://www.schewephoto.com :

Quote from: Schewe link=http://www.schewephoto.com
Jeff Schewe is a Photoshop Guru’s Guru. He’s on the inside of the development and testing of Photoshop and has helped guide and direct many features since Photoshop 4.0. Short of some of the Photoshop engineers, there’s probably not many people who knows Photoshop like Jeff.

As an indication of his skills and knowledge of fine art printing, he has been named an Epson Stylus Pro. He is a past Apple Master of the Medium and has been inducted into the Photoshop Hall of Fame. He speaks regularly at Photoshop World.

He is the coauthor of Real World Camera Raw with Adobe Photoshop CS5 and Real World Image Sharpening with Adobe Photoshop, Camera Raw, and Lightroom (along with the late Bruce Fraser) and is also coauthoring a book with Martin Evening titled Photoshop For Photographers: The Ultimate Workshop.

Jeff has a variety of video tutorials available with Michael Reichmann of the Luminious Landscape on digital printing, Camera Raw and Adobe Photoshop Lightroom.

You seem to suffer from the same illness as Adobe: a total disregard to your customer base.
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 10 11 [12] 13 14 ... 37   Go Up