new Fujifilm XF lens series roadmap: I like the direction of the X system

[BJL]

Fujifilm has just updated its lens roadmap for XF lenses, the ones for its new X series of "mirror-free" interchangeable lens cameras:
http://www.fujifilm.com/products/digital_cameras/xf_lens/roadmap/

With additions like a wide zoom (f=10-24mm, f/4), a bright "portrait" lens (f=56mm f/1.2) and the now fashionable pancake (f=27mm f/2.8), and the two core zooms both being a bit brighter than most alternatives in mirror-free systems (f=18-55mm f/2.8-4 and f=55-200 f/3.5-4.8), Fujilfilm is acting like a company that is fully committed to this as a fairly serious, flexible photographic system. I like this in contrast to competitors like Nikon, Canon, and Pentax, who seem to be holding the level of their mirrorless offerings down in order to target mostly upgraders from compact cameras, while encouraging "more serious customers" to stick with 20th century flipping mirror technology.

[Alan Smallbone]

Also do not forget the autofocusing lenses from Zeiss..... good times. The 55-200mm can be pre odered at B&H, delivery end of May.

Alan

[Vladimirovich]

now if they stop XTrans BS and just use a regular CFA and produce a regular camera bodies in addition to pseudoretrokitsch.

[Telecaster]

I think EVF dominance, even in the pro sector, is inevitable...and, from my perspective, welcome too. I've already left the flipping mirror behind.

I've got my eye on the X system. Once the RAW processing folks refine their demosaicing algorithms for Fuji's color filter matrix, and once more of the fast lenses listed in the roadmap make it to market, I'll probably give the system a good shot.

I think CaNikon better watch its back. The photo landscape is littered with the corpses of companies who didn't feel the future bearing down on them 'til they got steamrollered by it.

-Dave-

[Petrus]

I think EVF dominance, even in the pro sector, is inevitable...and, from my perspective, welcome too. I've already left the flipping mirror behind.

Never, unless they make an electronic viewfinder with a time machine looking into the future for half a sec. No serious action photographer is going to be happy with a viewfinder with lag. I had the Fuji X-E1 but replaced it with X100s, I want to see what is happening, not what happened.

I also have the X-Pro1, which I keep.

[Telecaster]

Never, unless they make an electronic viewfinder with a time machine looking into the future for half a sec. No serious action photographer is going to be happy with a viewfinder with lag.

Do you seriously think EVF tech is gonna stand still with all the R&D being put into it?

I agree that it's not ready yet for primetime action/sports-wise, but it'll get there.

When cameras with built-in meters came on the market, the old guard objected. When cameras with autofocus came on the market, the old guard objected. When electronic (digital) cameras came on the market, the old guard objected. See the pattern?

-Dave-

[Martin Ranger]

I do like the direction they are going in, but I am very unhappy about the delay in the 56mm lens. The X-E1 has pretty much replaced my Nikon system for most of my shooting (minus the charreada stuff for obvious reasons), and an AF portrait lens was all that was missing. There are plenty of excellent MF portrait lenses out there, of course, but they are very slow to use, especially with narrow DOF.

Also, C1 is doing an excellent job at demosaicing the X-Trans (at least for my subjects), the colors are amazing; and unlike Vladimirovich I see absolutely no reason to abandon the sensor design. As for retro kitsch, well, all I can say is that the X-E1 handles like a dream.

[Vladimirovich]

Also, C1 is doing an excellent job at demosaicing the X-Trans (at least for my subjects), the colors are amazing;

colors will be the same with the CFA arranged in a regular Bayer and the same raw converter (be it C1 or in camera's Fuji)... as for adjectives like "excellent" and "amazing" - that is just a blah-blah-blah... another "6 stops of DR" (c) Ph.D.

[Vladimirovich]

As for retro kitsch, well, all I can say is that the X-E1 handles like a dream.

as you probably noticed I did not suggest that Fuji shall stop catering to the market that likes the existing design but make another line for those who prefers a regular "dSLR" style...

[Martin Ranger]

colors will be the same with the CFA arranged in a regular Bayer and the same raw converter (be it C1 or in camera's Fuji)... as for adjectives like "excellent" and "amazing" - that is just a blah-blah-blah... another "6 stops of DR" (c) Ph.D.

Maybe colors will be the same, maybe they won't. Maybe it is the raw converter, maybe it is the lens that is responsible. It doesn't matter to me. I care about whether I and the people who look at the photos produced with the X-Trans sensor like them, whether this is due to the sensor or the lenses or the DR or the roll-off into clipping or the particular way my coffee tasted this morning. Well, maybe not the last one.

And you look at the results and think the sensor is BS and should be replaced, I look at the results and think they are "amazing". Fair enough. Now if you think "amazing" and "excellent" is blahblahblah you are of course correct. All I was trying to do is argue that I see no reason to replace the sensor with which I get results I like. Of course, one can discuss "Average "delta-C" color error after correction for saturation" (which according to imaging-resource is "excellent" by the way), but that was not the purpose of my post. In any case, photography is an emotional undertaking for me, so any evaluation will in the end be subjective.

[Martin Ranger]

as you probably noticed I did not suggest that Fuji shall stop catering to the market that likes the existing design but make another line for those who prefers a regular "dSLR" style...

I did notice indeed, but I wanted to point out that the pseudo-retro-kitsch that we have right now works very well for me though obviously not for you.

[Ed B]

pseudoretrokitsc

Is that a reference to the 40 year old Bayer design? I, personally, am glad there are companies like Fuji and Sigma pushing the envelope of sensor design.

[Petrus]

Do you seriously think EVF tech is gonna stand still with all the R&D being put into it?

I agree that it's not ready yet for primetime action/sports-wise, but it'll get there.

When cameras with built-in meters came on the market, the old guard objected. When cameras with autofocus came on the market, the old guard objected. When electronic (digital) cameras came on the market, the old guard objected. See the pattern?

-Dave-

Video viewfinder technology is certainly not going to stand still, but there will always be lag, and that is not acceptable in action shooting. Actually not even shooting, for example, an interview where a person waves his/her arms. I want to know exactly where the hands are in relation to the person's face & composition. With a EVF this does not happen. I know, having tried to shoot a couple with X-E1. With optical viewfinder and especially reflex camera everything is real time. Video VF never will.

I do not see this as being against new things, but being skeptical of something which does not and can not work (in some respect) as well as the method it is replacing. Digital is much better than film, for 99.9% of the shooters autofocus is better than manual, etc...  For unmovable subjects (landscape...) and for non-critical hobbyists EVF might be just perfect. I want the real time exactly as it is view a reflex optical viewfinder provides.

One more thing: I DO use the EVF in my X-Pro1 sometimes for exact framing in stationary shots, so I  do not "hate" them, I just do not "love" them either.

[BJL]

Video viewfinder technology is certainly not going to stand still, but there will always be lag, and that is not acceptable in action shooting. ... With optical viewfinder and especially reflex camera everything is real time. Video VF never will.

If the lag is reduced enough, say to a few milliseconds, well below the timescale of human vision, the lag will cease to be of any practical significance,so your "never" and "always" seems like baseless pessimism.

By the way, have you tried the 120fps refresh of cameras like the Olympus E-M5?

[Ludwig Nobel]

Video viewfinder technology is certainly not going to stand still, but there will always be lag, and that is not acceptable in action shooting. Actually not even shooting, for example, an interview where a person waves his/her arms. I want to know exactly where the hands are in relation to the person's face & composition. With a EVF this does not happen. I know, having tried to shoot a couple with X-E1. With optical viewfinder and especially reflex camera everything is real time. Video VF never will.

I do not see this as being against new things, but being skeptical of something which does not and can not work (in some respect) as well as the method it is replacing. Digital is much better than film, for 99.9% of the shooters autofocus is better than manual, etc...  For unmovable subjects (landscape...) and for non-critical hobbyists EVF might be just perfect. I want the real time exactly as it is view a reflex optical viewfinder provides.

One more thing: I DO use the EVF in my X-Pro1 sometimes for exact framing in stationary shots, so I  do not "hate" them, I just do not "love" them either.

So taking videos of fast moving objects is impossible...
Tell that to the guys on the sports channels.

Ludwig

[Petrus]

If the lag is reduced enough, say to a few milliseconds, well below the timescale of human vision, the lag will cease to be of any practical significance,so your "never" and "always" seems like baseless pessimism.

By the way, have you tried the 120fps refresh of cameras like the Olympus E-M5?

When the processing is so fast that the lag is a millisecond, lag is not longer a problem. We are not near there yet.

[Petrus]

So taking videos of fast moving objects is impossible...
Tell that to the guys on the sports channels.

Ludwig

There are video cameras which take 10000 frames per second or more, did you no know that? Camera is stationary on a tripod and a bullet passes by and is videographed. That is what I call shooting a fast moving object. What has this to do with the viewfinder lag?

Following something with video camera is different from taking stills. Clearly shooting sports with a television/video camera is possible (but there is also a lag when trying to follow random movements), but timing exact stills exposures with a viewfinder showing the past, not present is not possible.

[Pelao]

Well, anyway...

It's a very solid lens roadmap.

If they maintain the quality and price range of the lenses released so far, I will continue to be delighted. Amazed even.
 

[Alan Smallbone]

Well, anyway...

It's a very solid lens roadmap.

If they maintain the quality and price range of the lenses released so far, I will continue to be delighted. Amazed even.
 

I agree completely, and I am really looking forward to the Zeiss 12mm, if that is like my other Zeiss lenses it will be great. It is a good compact travel system.

Alan

[BJL]

... We are not near there yet.

I agree that at least most EVF's have worse lag than good SLRs; I was only arguing against the claim that lag will _always_ be a problem.

But you did not answer my question about experience with a 120fps EVF, like the high speed mode of the E-M5.
What EVF refresh rates do you have experience with?
My experience with the E-M5 is that the normal 60fps mode is distinctly laggy, but I have not noticed any lag in 120fps mode.

Another factor to weigh is the extra shutter lag in an SLR caused by the need to raise the mirror. The lowest lag I have seen for a DSLR is 40ms for camera like the D3X, 28ms more than the 12ms lag of the (mirror-free!) Leica M7. 120fps is about 8ms between refreshes, so has the potential for causing less lag than raising the SLR mirror.