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Author Topic: MFDB for Hasselblad SWC  (Read 4323 times)

Paul Ozzello

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MFDB for Hasselblad SWC
« on: April 05, 2013, 05:35:32 PM »


Hi guys,

Does anyone make a V mount sliding/multi-stitch adapter so that I can capture the entire frame from my Hasselblad SWC ? I know you can mount V lenses on a Harblei or a Fotodiox/Sony NEX - anything similar for a SWC ?

Rollei mentions something about the Hy6 being compatible with future 6x6 digital sensors but I'm not holding my breath...

Paul

FredBGG

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Re: MFDB for Hasselblad SWC
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2013, 08:01:46 PM »

Paul I think that the problem of using a modified fotodiox NEX sliding back thingy behind the SWC would be achieving infinity focus.

I think that a possibility would be to find an inexpensive SWC with a broken body or leaf shutter and have the lens removed and mounted on a modified fotodoix.

Good idea though putting a shift sensor behind the 38mm biogon.

You could use a Hasselblad V 40mm on a fotodiox. Not quite the SWC, but a possibility.

Another thing to consider is possible lens/sensor color casts from the SWC as the rear lens is very close to the focal plane.
The 40mm being designed for the reflex bodies is likely to be better as far as lens/sensor color casts.

« Last Edit: April 06, 2013, 03:07:36 AM by FredBGG »
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: MFDB for Hasselblad SWC
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2013, 02:46:17 AM »

Hi,

Not sure that is a workable idea. You will get an awful lot of lens casts on a Biogon 38, I guess.

It would be a great surprise if there were any 6x6 sensors, they would be prohibitively expensive and have a small market.

The flange distance is probably to short for a sliding back.

Best regards
Erik


Hi guys,

Does anyone make a V mount sliding/multi-stitch adapter so that I can capture the entire frame from my Hasselblad SWC ? I know you can mount V lenses on a Harblei or a Fotodiox/Sony NEX - anything similar for a SWC ?

Rollei mentions something about the Hy6 being compatible with future 6x6 digital sensors but I'm not holding my breath...

Paul


eronald

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Re: MFDB for Hasselblad SWC
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2013, 01:02:37 PM »

I have an old SWC - it is not really 6x6.

Edmund

Hi,

Not sure that is a workable idea. You will get an awful lot of lens casts on a Biogon 38, I guess.

It would be a great surprise if there were any 6x6 sensors, they would be prohibitively expensive and have a small market.

The flange distance is probably to short for a sliding back.

Best regards
Erik


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FredBGG

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Re: MFDB for Hasselblad SWC
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2013, 01:49:12 PM »

If I recall correctly the actual size of the image on the negative is 56x56.
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uaiomex

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Re: MFDB for Hasselblad SWC
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2013, 03:38:32 PM »

On both my 2 A12 magazines the negative size is 55X55.

Eduardo
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FredBGG

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Re: MFDB for Hasselblad SWC
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2013, 04:02:49 PM »

If transplanted onto another gizmo the lens may well cover more than 55mm x55mm
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Paul Ozzello

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Re: MFDB for Hasselblad SWC
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2013, 06:39:55 PM »

Paul I think that the problem of using a modified fotodiox NEX sliding back thingy behind the SWC would be achieving infinity focus.

I think that a possibility would be to find an inexpensive SWC with a broken body or leaf shutter and have the lens removed and mounted on a modified fotodoix.

Good idea though putting a shift sensor behind the 38mm biogon.

You could use a Hasselblad V 40mm on a fotodiox. Not quite the SWC, but a possibility.

Another thing to consider is possible lens/sensor color casts from the SWC as the rear lens is very close to the focal plane.
The 40mm being designed for the reflex bodies is likely to be better as far as lens/sensor color casts.



I shoot mostly black and white so the color casts wouldn't be an issue. I don't know how feasible is would be to modify the lens to fit onto a fotodiox, I wonder if it could be converted into a regular CF lens by putting a flange on it - sounds overly complicated...

Since the latest sensors cover ~54mm wide, what I had in mind was machining a custom mount for a Phase or Leaf back allowing the back to slide up and down and capture the whole frame. Is this something that could conceivably be fabricated ? Or a custom oversize mount that would allow the back to be attached in two positions (top and bottom of frames) ?

I would sell a kidney for a 56 x 56 MFDB...

FredBGG

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Re: MFDB for Hasselblad SWC
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2013, 01:01:13 PM »

Keep in mind that color cast does not only affect color, it also affects contrast. It will be easier to correct, but can still be an issue occasionally.
It may actualy be quite simple to put a 38 Biogon onto a Fotodiox Rhino Cam. The front of the camera is flat and an if I understand correctly
it already uses adapters to mount different brands of lenses.



It looks like these adapters have a bayonet on the Rhino side and then the Hasselblad or Pentax or Mamiya on the other.

I think the hardest part of the modification would be the Rhino side bayonet, but you could get that from Fotoviox I would think.

On the Biogon side a simple tube that fits over the base of the Biogon would do the trick and give you some room to tune the lens.

The Biogon right by the SWC body looks like a clean cylindrical shape.

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bcroslin

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Re: MFDB for Hasselblad SWC
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2013, 02:18:40 PM »

I would sell a kidney for a 56 x 56 MFDB...

You and me both. I keep hearing how expensive a 6x6 digital back would be but if the state-of-the-art mfdb is in the neighborhood of $25k why not shoot for the moon? There's got to be a market for it.

Can anyone explain why Hasselblad hasn't manufactured even a 48x48 back? 56x56 would be great but even a 50x50 would be awesome.
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FredBGG

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Re: MFDB for Hasselblad SWC
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2013, 02:54:13 PM »

Because they don't make sensors and have to depend on other manufacturers that are not primarily in
the bushiness of MF photography. They have to use what is available.

Dalsa for example does't even list MF photography among the applications of their sensors.

Hover over the market and applications item at the top of the page.

This is what they list:

Quote
Machine Vision & Inspection
Semiconductor
Electronics
Flat Panel Displays
Solar Panel
Postal and Parcel Sorting
Food and Packaging
Automotive
Pharmaceutical
General Manufacturing
Web Inspection
Industrial X-Ray / NDT
Explore Machine Vision & Inspection
Defense & Security
ISTAR and RSTAR
Threat Detection
Situational Awareness
Night Vision and Enhanced Vision
Explore Defense & Security
Medical & Life Sciences
Orthopedic and Surgical Radiography
Dental Radiography
Mammography
Bone Densitometry
Ophthalmology
Explore Medical & Life Sciences
Intelligent Transportation Systems
Toll Management
Safety Monitoring
Traffic Flow Control
Speed and Red Light Enforcement
Access Control
Road/Rail/Vehicle Inspection
Explore Intelligent Transportation Systems
Scientific
Crystallography
Microscopy
Astronomy
Spectroscopy
Ultra-High Speed
Explore Scientific

Aerospace
Multispectral
Hyperspectral
High Resolution Panchromatic
Explore Aerospace


However a relationship with someone like Sony may make for more custom format sizes possible.
A Hasselblad/Sony sensor relationship is a possibility. Sony's phase detection focusing on sensor
would be a big benefit for MF, especially focus assist on legacy manual focus cameras.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2013, 03:33:27 PM by FredBGG »
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: MFDB for Hasselblad SWC
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2013, 02:57:00 PM »

Hi,

Hasselblad don't make their sensors, they buy them from Truesense, I think, or possibly Dalsa. Making just a few square sensors would be incredibly expensive.

- Develop sensor design
- Create all necessary masks
- Set up and tune a production line
- Set up testing procedures

So you would be reasonably sure sales would cover development and production costs. Would you actually buy a 25KUSD sensor? Would you also buy a 250kUSD sensor?


Best regards
Erik

You and me both. I keep hearing how expensive a 6x6 digital back would be but if the state-of-the-art mfdb is in the neighborhood of $25k why not shoot for the moon? There's got to be a market for it.

Can anyone explain why Hasselblad hasn't manufactured even a 48x48 back? 56x56 would be great but even a 50x50 would be awesome.

TMARK

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Re: MFDB for Hasselblad SWC
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2013, 03:57:35 PM »

Hi,

Hasselblad don't make their sensors, they buy them from Truesense, I think, or possibly Dalsa. Making just a few square sensors would be incredibly expensive.

- Develop sensor design
- Create all necessary masks
- Set up and tune a production line
- Set up testing procedures

So you would be reasonably sure sales would cover development and production costs. Would you actually buy a 25KUSD sensor? Would you also buy a 250kUSD sensor?


Best regards
Erik


How much are Kidneys going for these days?  That is the price people are willing to pay.
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: MFDB for Hasselblad SWC
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2013, 04:26:55 PM »

Hi,

I don't think Hasselblad are in the medical business...

Best regards
Erik

How much are Kidneys going for these days?  That is the price people are willing to pay.

bcroslin

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Re: MFDB for Hasselblad SWC
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2013, 07:20:46 PM »

I get that Hasselblad doesn't make their own sensors - seems like no one but Canon makes their own. What I'm asking is why Hasselblad essentially abandoned a perfectly good camera system with a format that is legendary? I hate shooting rectangles and I know I'm not the only one. Someone posted something about Dalsa producing a large square chip not too long ago. Stick it in a back already!
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: MFDB for Hasselblad SWC
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2013, 01:49:30 AM »

OK!

How much are you willing to pay?

Hasselblad make a back for the V-series and I think it can shoot cropped square images at 37x37 mm. It is even reasonably priced at 17000 $US.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=hasselblad+cfv-50&N=0&InitialSearch=yes&sts=ta

If you are seriously interested in buying a camera with a 56x56 DALSA sensor I suggest you write to Hasselblad, but I guess it would be very expensive.

Best regards
Erik

I get that Hasselblad doesn't make their own sensors - seems like no one but Canon makes their own. What I'm asking is why Hasselblad essentially abandoned a perfectly good camera system with a format that is legendary? I hate shooting rectangles and I know I'm not the only one. Someone posted something about Dalsa producing a large square chip not too long ago. Stick it in a back already!

torger

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Re: MFDB for Hasselblad SWC
« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2013, 10:30:31 AM »

It's been done before :), Dicomed Bigshot, 60x60mm

http://www.epi-centre.com/reports/9604cs.html

$55K for the color version back then.

Maybe 56x56 chips can be done quite easily today with 9um pixels, using existing tech? Would be a nice 39 megapixel fat pixel back! Problem is that it would be a huge risk for Hasselblad to test this market, and I don't think they are in the position to take such a risk...

How many would pay ~$50K for a full-frame CFV back?
« Last Edit: April 09, 2013, 10:38:44 AM by torger »
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TMARK

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Re: MFDB for Hasselblad SWC
« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2013, 11:02:52 AM »

It's been done before :), Dicomed Bigshot, 60x60mm

http://www.epi-centre.com/reports/9604cs.html

$55K for the color version back then.

Maybe 56x56 chips can be done quite easily today with 9um pixels, using existing tech? Would be a nice 39 megapixel fat pixel back! Problem is that it would be a huge risk for Hasselblad to test this market, and I don't think they are in the position to take such a risk...

How many would pay ~$50K for a full-frame CFV back?

If I were still shooting professionally, and if the back functioned as well as an IQ back, I'd pay $50k.  Its about the price of an IQ280 and a DF+, so yeah.  I'd be on that.

People pay $30k for an M9 with Ostrich skin leatherette.  Surely there are enough people willing to go the $50k to shoot with a FF digital V.
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Paul Ozzello

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Re: MFDB for Hasselblad SWC
« Reply #18 on: April 09, 2013, 12:50:00 PM »

Keep in mind that color cast does not only affect color, it also affects contrast. It will be easier to correct, but can still be an issue occasionally.
It may actualy be quite simple to put a 38 Biogon onto a Fotodiox Rhino Cam. The front of the camera is flat and an if I understand correctly
it already uses adapters to mount different brands of lenses.



It looks like these adapters have a bayonet on the Rhino side and then the Hasselblad or Pentax or Mamiya on the other.

I think the hardest part of the modification would be the Rhino side bayonet, but you could get that from Fotoviox I would think.

On the Biogon side a simple tube that fits over the base of the Biogon would do the trick and give you some room to tune the lens.

The Biogon right by the SWC body looks like a clean cylindrical shape.



A simple tube hunh ?

I wonder if the Fotodiox would even work, the lens is symmetrical and so close to the film plane the NEX would probably block part of the projected image...

The Seitz D3 scan back looks interesting. Quoting from their website:

Quote
Possibility to remove the Seitz D3 digital scan back from the Roundshot D3 camera and to use it with the Seitz 6x17 Digital

Just like a traditional digital back the Seitz D3 scan back cassette can be removed from the Roundshot D3 360 panorama camera and fitted to other cameras, e.g., the new 6x17 camera body and, in the future, medium format cameras. The possibility to use the scan back in a variety of different cameras makes the system truly versatile - to the benefit of the photographer.

http://www.roundshotusa.com/products/d3/index.htm

Has anyone actually used this back ?

Paul

Paul Ozzello

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Re: MFDB for Hasselblad SWC
« Reply #19 on: April 09, 2013, 12:57:17 PM »


How is the sensor of a DSLR attached ? Can it be 'detached' and mounted flush with the lens mount ? In that case machining a sliding/stitching adapter wouldn't be too difficult...

I'd rather butcher a D800 than a SWC  ;D
« Last Edit: April 09, 2013, 01:19:39 PM by Paul Ozzello »
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