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Author Topic: New DXO scores for Leica M (240) !  (Read 7859 times)

hasselbladfan

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New DXO scores for Leica M (240) !
« on: March 28, 2013, 05:54:47 PM »

M 240 - overall 84 - 13.3 EV - 1860 ISO
M9     - overall 69 - 11.7 EV - 884 ISO

Whatever discussions there is about their methodology,
knowing the great pictures we all make with the M9 and the Leica glass,

.....  the new M seem to be even in a different class, extremely promising !!

« Last Edit: March 28, 2013, 05:58:12 PM by hasselbladfan »
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MrSmith

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Re: New DXO scores for Leica M (240) !
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2013, 06:53:55 PM »

Great news for the measurebators.
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FredBGG

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Re: New DXO scores for Leica M (240) !
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2013, 07:28:59 PM »

A friend of mine shot portraits with the Monochrome version and he found it to be absolutely excellent.
Fell in love with it.
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BarbaraArmstrong

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Re: New DXO scores for Leica M (240) !
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2013, 01:01:58 AM »

It should be borne in mind that the Monochrom is an adaptation of the M9, rather than the new 240.  The Monochrom uses the 18 MP CCD sensor of the M9, but without the overlaid color filters, rather than the new 24 MP CMOS sensor of the 240.  The differences in the ways these two sensors register the light, and the processing of that information in-camera, will lead to very different testing data, but the Monochrom should be understood in reference to the M9, rather than the newer camera (which I'm really looking forward to seeing results from).  --Barbara
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BarbaraArmstrong

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Re: New DXO scores for Leica M (240) !
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2013, 01:09:56 AM »

What I should have said, but didn't say clearly, was that the two sensors in the M9 and the Monochrom should test quite differently for a variety of reasons, but that it is still the M9 that is the reference point for the Monochrom.  The 240 is an entirely different animal.
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: New DXO scores for Leica M (240) !
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2013, 01:29:34 AM »

Hi,

I think the main benefit is live view. Having better DR (meaning less shadow noise) and better high ISO capability (which comes from reduced shadow noise) is also good.

It is interesting to see that a small firm like Leica could afford developing it's own sensor.

Best regards
Erik

What I should have said, but didn't say clearly, was that the two sensors in the M9 and the Monochrom should test quite differently for a variety of reasons, but that it is still the M9 that is the reference point for the Monochrom.  The 240 is an entirely different animal.

Petrus

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Re: New DXO scores for Leica M (240) !
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2013, 02:34:42 AM »


It is interesting to see that a small firm like Leica could afford developing it's own sensor.

Best regards
Erik


So it is not a Sony sensor after all? I read somewhere that all the top FF sensors are sourced from Sony now.
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LKaven

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Re: New DXO scores for Leica M (240) !
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2013, 02:43:09 AM »

Great news for the measurebators.

...and photographers alike.

LKaven

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Re: New DXO scores for Leica M (240) !
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2013, 02:46:55 AM »

So it is not a Sony sensor after all? I read somewhere that all the top FF sensors are sourced from Sony now.

The performance at base ISO seems to point to on-chip conversion.  It might be an Exmor type, though I think there are other people who have been working on sensors with on-chip conversion.  I don't think that Leica had much to do with it.  They don't have that much money to bring to the game with the expectation of making it back. 

BernardLanguillier

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Re: New DXO scores for Leica M (240) !
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2013, 02:49:21 AM »

So it is not a Sony sensor after all? I read somewhere that all the top FF sensors are sourced from Sony now.

You've got it the other way around. Just about anybody is able to make competitive CMOS sensors except... Canon and Dalsa.  ;)

Jokes aside, this sensor was designed by the same guys who had designed the Kodak SLRn sensor. The company was then called fill factory, it is now called CMOSIS.

My understanding is that this company, located in Antwerpen, is a spin off from the research in semi-conductors done in University of Leuven within IMEC. A leading semi-conductor research facility employing 2,000 people worldwide.

http://www.cmosis.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMEC

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: March 29, 2013, 02:55:20 AM by BernardLanguillier »
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A few images online here!

BarbaraArmstrong

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Re: New DXO scores for Leica M (240) !
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2013, 02:53:19 AM »

Leica contracted with CMOSIS to develop their new sensor.  You can find them online.  --Barbara
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hasselbladfan

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Re: New DXO scores for Leica M (240) !
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2013, 03:23:25 AM »

Great news for the measurebators.

As long as we cannot go out with it, we can only dream. Measurements are sometimes enough for nice dreams. :)
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: New DXO scores for Leica M (240) !
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2013, 03:29:11 AM »

Hi,

No, the Leica M sensor was designed by CMOSIS and is fabbed at ST.
http://www.chipworks.com/blog/technologyblog/2012/10/25/full-frame-dslr-cameras-part-iii-new-entrants-and-look-forward/

There are several makers of CMOS sensors competing with Sony. Sony has probably a small edge in some aspects.

Best regards
Erik



So it is not a Sony sensor after all? I read somewhere that all the top FF sensors are sourced from Sony now.

BJL

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Who is designing "modern" CMOS sensors? Everyone but Canon??
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2013, 02:16:43 PM »

You've got it the other way around. Just about anybody is able to make competitive CMOS sensors except... Canon and Dalsa.  ;)
And maybe you can remove Dalsa from that list. For example, it seems that Dalsa has been making CMOS sensors with column-parallel ADC (as with Sony Exmor and CMOSIS and some Panasonic 4/3" sensors and the sensors in all recent Olympus models and in some Samsung video cameras ...) and some also with global electronic shutters --- but so far Dalsa has only made CMOS sensors in smaller formats (aimed at machine vision and high speed video) and in some big, low resolution sensors for X-rays etc.

Here is an article by Dalsa, from way back in 2005: http://www.covistech.com/uploads/DALSA_Datasheets/DALSA_CMOS_Shuttering.pdf


(And my guess is that Canon is by now designing more modern sensors than it currently offers, for coming DSLR models.)
« Last Edit: March 29, 2013, 03:23:17 PM by BJL »
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ghoonk

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Re: New DXO scores for Leica M (240) !
« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2013, 01:10:39 PM »

A friend of mine shot portraits with the Monochrome version and he found it to be absolutely excellent.
Fell in love with it.

Any chance that might be a certain gerald.d? :)
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: New DXO scores for Leica M (240) !
« Reply #15 on: March 30, 2013, 04:24:12 PM »

Hi,

The Monochrome is an entirely different camera using the old CCD sensor with no CGA (Color Grid Array).

Best regards
Erik

Any chance that might be a certain gerald.d? :)

FredBGG

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Re: New DXO scores for Leica M (240) !
« Reply #16 on: March 30, 2013, 10:53:00 PM »

Any chance that might be a certain gerald.d? :)

No Richard Cartwright in Hollywood.
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hasselbladfan

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Re: New DXO scores for Leica M (240) !
« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2013, 03:45:10 AM »

Someone hijacked my thread at the expense of the Monochrom. :)

It is funny, if Nikon or Sigma makes a major improvement in sensor, everyone talks about it in every thread.

If Leica does, with much less resources, people seem to ignore it.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: New DXO scores for Leica M (240) !
« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2013, 04:03:41 AM »

It is funny, if Nikon or Sigma makes a major improvement in sensor, everyone talks about it in every thread.

If Leica does, with much less resources, people seem to ignore it.

Boooh... poor Leica!  ;)

Now, it is somehow understandable... The new Ferrari hybrid car also affects the life of fewer people than the latest TDI from VW.  ;D

Besides, in this case, the Ferrari still isn't performing as well as the 1+ year old VW...

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: April 01, 2013, 05:02:23 AM by BernardLanguillier »
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A few images online here!

ErikKaffehr

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Re: New DXO scores for Leica M (240) !
« Reply #19 on: April 01, 2013, 04:31:08 AM »

Hi,

The new sensor is a splendid addition to Leica, making CMOS technology available to Leica, but the DxO rating of the Leica M (240) still lags the four year old Nikon D3X. So it is a giant leap for Leica but a small step for the photo industry.

Best regards
Erik


Someone hijacked my thread at the expense of the Monochrom. :)

It is funny, if Nikon or Sigma makes a major improvement in sensor, everyone talks about it in every thread.

If Leica does, with much less resources, people seem to ignore it.
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