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Author Topic: DIGITAL Medium Format photography is almost as moribund???  (Read 64494 times)

ErikKaffehr

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Re: DIGITAL Medium Format photography is almost as moribund???
« Reply #200 on: March 07, 2013, 11:37:01 PM »

Hi,

A lot of good points. A well working AF is important, and even more important if the system has no live view.

Best regards
Erik

...

But what you don't see from the pictures is more important:
-the H3D has much better and much more accurate AF, I must use live view on the D800 to come close (this was a real surprise of mine)
-the Hasselblad lenses are much better and perfectly usable wide open. Nikon does not have a prime coming close to the Hasselblad 28mm (which has about a 21mm equivalent FOV on the H3D-31). The 12-24 is Nikon's best wide angle lens. The only alternative would be the Zeiss 21mm and the Hasselblad lens is still better and has AF. Lenses always have been small format's Achille's heel
-the H3D has much, much better colours out of the box, especially skin colours. Sure, I can spend an hour to tweak the Nikon's output to look better, but for a pro in fashion, the capability to output perfect skin colours without effort is invaluable.
-the H3D is much easier to shoot tethered, which is again invaluable for many pros (most of them shoot catalogues pictures)
-medium format will make limited depth of field look nicer, which is essential for portraits. The reasons here are complex, I may come back to that later
-and of course recent MF cameras have much higher resolution.


Guy Mancuso

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Re: DIGITAL Medium Format photography is almost as moribund???
« Reply #201 on: March 08, 2013, 12:18:29 AM »

BTW since someone here cant seem to give the artist or his reviews any credit around here. Here is a gentleman's review that was posted. I read this before deciding on buying the Zeiss after I already had and sold the 14-24 since it focused shifted like a banchee regardless what was said I owned it and it was all over the place. I figured the Samyang was worth a try as some of you may have seen what I shot with it, the results are pretty impressive and about 6 people I know bought one after I posted those images here. Its worth a look if you need a extreme wide and want to save some money for other glass which is what I did at the time was bought 2 other lenses as well. No question it needs work in post and care in shooting but its fun

http://www.getdpi.com/forum/nikon/41004-samyang-14mm.html


http://3d-kraft.de/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=127:uwa-comparison&catid=40:camerasandlenses&Itemid=2
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Marlyn

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Re: DIGITAL Medium Format photography is almost as moribund???
« Reply #202 on: March 08, 2013, 12:38:57 AM »

Hi,

A lot of good points. A well working AF is important, and even more important if the system has no live view.

Best regards
Erik


If the type of shooting you are doing  requires AutoFocus,  then live view is generally useless anyway.

For example, tracking moving subjects of any kind (sports, models, action, wildlife, birding), and picking the moment,  there is no time to liveview on any camera.  The shot is over in a split second.

To me,  AF and live view are, as a rule, mutually exclusive use cases.  It is nice if the one system does both of course !!

Regards

Mark
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: DIGITAL Medium Format photography is almost as moribund???
« Reply #203 on: March 08, 2013, 01:00:27 AM »

Hi Guy,

I have also bought the Samyang 14/2.8, in part after reading Tim Ashley's review, here:
http://tashley1.zenfolio.com/blog/2012/11/the-samyang-14mm-f2-8-ed-if-umc

My copy is not as good as some other's I guess but it is just fine the way I work. It is a very good lens for a very good price.

I always use it with live view, magnified for focusing.

Best regards
Erik


BTW since someone here cant seem to give the artist or his reviews any credit around here. Here is a gentleman's review that was posted. I read this before deciding on buying the Zeiss after I already had and sold the 14-24 since it focused shifted like a banchee regardless what was said I owned it and it was all over the place. I figured the Samyang was worth a try as some of you may have seen what I shot with it, the results are pretty impressive and about 6 people I know bought one after I posted those images here. Its worth a look if you need a extreme wide and want to save some money for other glass which is what I did at the time was bought 2 other lenses as well. No question it needs work in post and care in shooting but its fun

http://www.getdpi.com/forum/nikon/41004-samyang-14mm.html


http://3d-kraft.de/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=127:uwa-comparison&catid=40:camerasandlenses&Itemid=2

ErikKaffehr

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Re: DIGITAL Medium Format photography is almost as moribund???
« Reply #204 on: March 08, 2013, 01:30:42 AM »

Hi,

An AF that works well with things in motion may not be good enough for critical sharpness at large apertures.

If a camera doesn't have live view, you either focus on ground glass or rely on AF. I don't think old Hasselblads backs have LV so good AF is a very good thing.

Best regards
Erik


If the type of shooting you are doing  requires AutoFocus,  then live view is generally useless anyway.

For example, tracking moving subjects of any kind (sports, models, action, wildlife, birding), and picking the moment,  there is no time to liveview on any camera.  The shot is over in a split second.

To me,  AF and live view are, as a rule, mutually exclusive use cases.  It is nice if the one system does both of course !!

Regards

Mark

BernardLanguillier

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Re: DIGITAL Medium Format photography is almost as moribund???
« Reply #205 on: March 08, 2013, 02:30:54 AM »

If the type of shooting you are doing  requires AutoFocus,  then live view is generally useless anyway.

For example, tracking moving subjects of any kind (sports, models, action, wildlife, birding), and picking the moment,  there is no time to liveview on any camera.  The shot is over in a split second.

To me,  AF and live view are, as a rule, mutually exclusive use cases.  It is nice if the one system does both of course !!

Mark,

I see you have never used a Nikon J1/V1.

Cheers,
Bernard
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A few images online here!

bcooter

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Re: DIGITAL Medium Format photography is almost as moribund???
« Reply #206 on: March 08, 2013, 04:39:52 AM »

I want to nominate Fred BGG for the role of "Most Determined Poster On The Web Award" or forever known as the "Ditty".

We have now gone from a useful photography forum  . . . passed DP review . . .



. . . and now on the way to TMZ.

If somebody would just start a thread why photographing Justin Bieber with a Nikon is the only "right" solution, the process would be complete.

IMO

BC
« Last Edit: March 08, 2013, 04:51:39 AM by bcooter »
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MrSmith

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Re: DIGITAL Medium Format photography is almost as moribund???
« Reply #208 on: March 08, 2013, 05:05:31 AM »

This forum needs more pics of sunsets and 'glamourous girlfriends/wives, it has been proven that cats alone cannot sustain photography forums.
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FredBGG

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Re: DIGITAL Medium Format photography is almost as moribund???
« Reply #209 on: March 08, 2013, 05:20:46 AM »

BTW since someone here cant seem to give the artist or his reviews any credit around here. Here is a gentleman's review that was posted. I read this before deciding on buying the Zeiss after I already had and sold the 14-24 since it focused shifted like a banchee regardless what was said I owned it and it was all over the place. I figured the Samyang was worth a try as some of you may have seen what I shot with it, the results are pretty impressive and about 6 people I know bought one after I posted those images here. Its worth a look if you need a extreme wide and want to save some money for other glass which is what I did at the time was bought 2 other lenses as well. No question it needs work in post and care in shooting but its fun

http://www.getdpi.com/forum/nikon/41004-samyang-14mm.html


http://3d-kraft.de/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=127:uwa-comparison&catid=40:camerasandlenses&Itemid=2


The Samyang is an OK lens. Actually quite excellent for the price. However i find it ridiculous to trash Nikon wide angles
if you love the Samyang.

..... and frankly that is not right Nikon cannot get a damn good wide angle out the door

Incase you missed it Nikon went through some pretty serious problems with the tsunami and floods.
While they already have some excellent wide angle lenses and one of the best ultra wide zooms I'm sure they are working
on even better lenses since they moved up to making 36MP cameras.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2013, 05:34:00 AM by FredBGG »
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FredBGG

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Re: DIGITAL Medium Format photography is almost as moribund???
« Reply #210 on: March 08, 2013, 06:01:05 AM »

I want to nominate Fred BGG for the role of "Most Determined Poster On The Web Award" or forever known as the "Ditty".

We have now gone from a useful photography forum  . . . passed DP review . . .



. . . and now on the way to TMZ.

If somebody would just start a thread why photographing Justin Bieber with a Nikon is the only "right" solution, the process would be complete.

IMO

BC

Well Cooter it seems you are hear at all times waiting to pounce on me.
Congratulations!
And them have your buddy Yaya from Leaf play along.

Oh and for your information when I photographer Mr Bieber it was with a Canon.
Also why do you have it in for Bieber. He's a really nice kid, bloody hard worker and
entertains millions. He recently gave Half a million dollars to a children's charity,
gave generously to Hurricane Sandy victims. Not bad for a teenager.
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bcooter

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Re: DIGITAL Medium Format photography is almost as moribund???
« Reply #211 on: March 08, 2013, 07:02:47 AM »

Fred,

In life you gotta either laugh, cry or scream.

Nobody has it in for  you, or a teen star.  Heck I don't know anything about  anyone that's 15,  other than anytime I see one of those celeb links that litter my mail,  his name is on it.

Be honest man, you got boner for Nikon and really, really, really, spend a lot of time trying to pounce on Phase.

Phase or Leaf could announce free cameras made out of gold bars and I swear you'd say gold will make you hands turn green.

As far as Yair and the other reps on this forum, man your jackin' with them all the time and these people are professionals in every sense of the meaning

They are a positive resource for any professional photographer whether you buy their products or not.

I'd list it all, but you'd think I was getting free stuff or something and then you'd be jackin' with me.

All I know is if someone messed with my profession I'd be a lot less kind than they are.

This and every public forum has a lot of junk.  And camera forums are always talking one brand or format compared to another, but since you rode into town with your Nikon's blazin', this place has gone up a notch on the who gives a s**t level.

You know, you've shown a few nice photos and if you really shoot A list celebs for money, why not post a few decent images, or give a rundown of the shoot.  A lot of people would find that cool, (or is that kewl)?

But  . . . you can do what you want.  I don't own this place and it's really none of my business what anyone does, though don't think you can throw rocks and not wear a helmet.

IMO

BC
« Last Edit: March 08, 2013, 07:04:31 AM by bcooter »
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: DIGITAL Medium Format photography is almost as moribund???
« Reply #212 on: March 08, 2013, 07:03:14 AM »

Hi,

It just takes a calibrated distance scale with three full rotations, a couple of shims and laser distance meter.

That is the Alpa way.

Best regards
Erik

Hi Bernard,

Since we had the first camera to offer live view in 1996 and as we often use it as a USP for our backs I cannot disagree that this is a very handy tool. But it is far from being essential to delivering high quality images and it is not always useful (moving subjects etc.)

Yair

yaya

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Re: DIGITAL Medium Format photography is almost as moribund???
« Reply #213 on: March 08, 2013, 07:47:50 AM »

Hi,

It just takes a calibrated distance scale with three full rotations, a couple of shims and laser distance meter.

That is the Alpa way.

Best regards
Erik


Hi Erik,

I use a technical camera on a regular base with Aptus and Credo backs and with/ without Live View. I do not use a distance meter and I do not shim any of the backs. I very rarely have any focusing issues

Hope this helps

Yair

Guy Mancuso

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Re: DIGITAL Medium Format photography is almost as moribund???
« Reply #214 on: March 08, 2013, 08:27:30 AM »

The Samyang is an OK lens. Actually quite excellent for the price. However i find it ridiculous to trash Nikon wide angles
if you love the Samyang.

Incase you missed it Nikon went through some pretty serious problems with the tsunami and floods.
While they already have some excellent wide angle lenses and one of the best ultra wide zooms I'm sure they are working
on even better lenses since they moved up to making 36MP cameras.


I find it completely incompentant to trash MF and you do it on every breath you take. It's like a 5 year old here where dealing with.
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JV

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Re: DIGITAL Medium Format photography is almost as moribund???
« Reply #215 on: March 08, 2013, 09:15:18 AM »

It's like a 5 year old here where dealing with.

At least with a 5 year old you can still hope he will grow up and change...
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: DIGITAL Medium Format photography is almost as moribund???
« Reply #216 on: March 08, 2013, 11:13:26 AM »

Hi Yair,

I don't know about Phase One AF or Mamiya AF but most AF systems can not achieve critical focus at large apertures. It also seems that a few people cannot achieve perfect focus with ground glass focusing either. I know that Diglloyd has problems with AF on all of Nikon D800E, Leica S2, Pentax 645D. This is not really about calibration, he found AF calibration does not really hep.

It seems that Alpa came up with a focusing system that allows the users to shim the backs, and several authors posted tutorials on achieving correct shimming, among others Mark Dubovoy (frequent author on LuLa). I don't think Alpa added the shimming option just out of vanity.

With live view you see the actual pixels when you focus, so you actually now that your point of focus is perfect.

Steve Hendricks indicated in a posting that photographers may be a bit tolerant on focusing errors.

Best regards
Erik


Hi Erik,

I use a technical camera on a regular base with Aptus and Credo backs and with/ without Live View. I do not use a distance meter and I do not shim any of the backs. I very rarely have any focusing issues

Hope this helps

Yair

yaya

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Re: DIGITAL Medium Format photography is almost as moribund???
« Reply #217 on: March 08, 2013, 11:43:42 AM »

Hi Yair,

I don't know about Phase One AF or Mamiya AF but most AF systems can not achieve critical focus at large apertures. It also seems that a few people cannot achieve perfect focus with ground glass focusing either. I know that Diglloyd has problems with AF on all of Nikon D800E, Leica S2, Pentax 645D. This is not really about calibration, he found AF calibration does not really hep.

It seems that Alpa came up with a focusing system that allows the users to shim the backs, and several authors posted tutorials on achieving correct shimming, among others Mark Dubovoy (frequent author on LuLa). I don't think Alpa added the shimming option just out of vanity.

With live view you see the actual pixels when you focus, so you actually now that your point of focus is perfect.

Steve Hendricks indicated in a posting that photographers may be a bit tolerant on focusing errors.

Best regards
Erik



As you may know most helical lens mounts on tech camera have got 3 little screws holding the focusing scale so the scale can be adjusted, placing infinity when it should be for a specific back. This can be done by the camera manufacturer or by the user.

Arca Swiss use a different helical mount that allows you to place infinity wherever you want without adjusting anything. Take a few shots, find the sharpest one and mark the number on the scale as your infinity. If you do this tethered through an open window with some very far objects it takes about 2-3 minutes not more

But as always I would suggest to try this for yourself, you don't need to take my word or anyone else's really...

Yair

Don Libby

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Re: DIGITAL Medium Format photography is almost as moribund???
« Reply #218 on: March 08, 2013, 12:02:15 PM »

Typical bully response in attempting to deflect.  Hope someone here wakes up sooner than later...
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Guy Mancuso

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Re: DIGITAL Medium Format photography is almost as moribund???
« Reply #219 on: March 08, 2013, 12:30:56 PM »

As you may know most helical lens mounts on tech camera have got 3 little screws holding the focusing scale so the scale can be adjusted, placing infinity when it should be for a specific back. This can be done by the camera manufacturer or by the user.

Arca Swiss use a different helical mount that allows you to place infinity wherever you want without adjusting anything. Take a few shots, find the sharpest one and mark the number on the scale as your infinity. If you do this tethered through an open window with some very far objects it takes about 2-3 minutes not more

But as always I would suggest to try this for yourself, you don't need to take my word or anyone else's really...

Yair



I have adjusted all three of my Cambo mounted lenses through resetting the infinity scale. My 35 XL was off a great deal. I did it tethered and shot at infinity and never had a issue since with focus. Like Yair I rarely used any aids in focusing my tech cam. The IQ or Credo does help a great deal though with the 100 percent zoom and for the IQ which I had the focus mask also is a great aid. Arca uses a unique system and Alpa and Cambo are basically the same type of setups. Cambos you can adjust the the back though through the mounting of the back, there are four screws on each corner t make that adjustment . Never found the need for that though as checking each lens seemed a far better way to achieve excellent focusing. Adjusting the back is a generic adjustment one lens may need more or less and my reason for going to adjust each lens.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2013, 12:33:21 PM by Guy Mancuso »
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