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Author Topic: Lenses for D800 - where's the weak link?  (Read 34820 times)

Fine_Art

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Re: Lenses for D800 - where's the weak link?
« Reply #100 on: March 20, 2013, 11:08:10 PM »

Hi Bob,

I use the Horseman VCC system using Rodenstock Rodagon and Apo Rodagon enlarging lenses for all my art reproduction, jewellery, food and drink photography  with excellent results. These Rodenstock lenses on my Nikon D800E are superb.

Cheers

Simon

I have to say your beer shot is really working, I want one. Actually a case. Really nice work.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Lenses for D800 - where's the weak link?
« Reply #101 on: March 20, 2013, 11:17:09 PM »

Agreed, whether future Nikon tilt-shift lenses can ever match those of Canon with the current Nikon lens mount is questionable. Then there's the advantage of the Canon dual axis rotation.

The rear optical element of all the T/S I know of is significantly smaller than the mounts and located fairly close to them. I don't believe that the F mount is the issue here.

Cheers,
Bernard
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HarperPhotos

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Re: Lenses for D800 - where's the weak link?
« Reply #102 on: March 20, 2013, 11:20:18 PM »

Hello,

Thanks Fine Art.

I took few shots of a bottle today for Jim Beam using my Horseman VCC adaptor with a Rodenstock Apo Rodagon 105mm lens and of course my Nikon D800E.

The bottle just looked awesome even thought I am not a bourbon drinker. I prefer Vodka and red wine but not in the same glass mind you.

Cheers

Simon
« Last Edit: March 21, 2013, 01:09:35 AM by HarperPhotos »
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Simon Harper
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Fine_Art

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Re: Lenses for D800 - where's the weak link?
« Reply #103 on: March 20, 2013, 11:26:20 PM »

I picked up the D600 with the 85 1.8G today. They are bringing in a Sigma 35 (the new version) for me at the end of the week. Finally after years of waiting I am full frame again without film.

The 85 is looking good BTW, I have to redo my resolution tests tomorrow from further away in case the chart printing is the weak link. A good sign. It seems the lens is near nyquist like my sony macros. A curious thing in the store was jpg wide open formed strong purple on a black and white street sign far away. When we swapped it for a different (the store demo) copy the color was green. My conversions at home from RAW look better. The resolution is great, there is a hint of purple which vanishes stopped down.
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HarperPhotos

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Re: Lenses for D800 - where's the weak link?
« Reply #104 on: March 20, 2013, 11:36:43 PM »

Hi Fine Art,

Glad to read about your new toys. The Nikon 85mm F1.8 has a very good reap. I have the Nikon 28mm F1.8 lens and I just love it. I have to try another Sigma 35mm F1.4 against my Nikon 35mm F1.4 lens in a few weeks as me and Lloyd Charmers can't be the only shooters to get dudes.

Cheers

Simon
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Simon Harper
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KLaban

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Re: Lenses for D800 - where's the weak link?
« Reply #105 on: March 21, 2013, 05:06:26 AM »

The rear optical element of all the T/S I know of is significantly smaller than the mounts and located fairly close to them. I don't believe that the F mount is the issue here.

Bernard, I bow to your greater knowledge of the Nikon system.

So, there's no real excuse? Nikon should be capable of producing T/S lenses that are as good or even better than the Canon offerings? They just need to get their act together?
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Lenses for D800 - where's the weak link?
« Reply #106 on: March 21, 2013, 08:54:56 AM »

Bernard, I bow to your greater knowledge of the Nikon system.

So, there's no real excuse? Nikon should be capable of producing T/S lenses that are as good or even better than the Canon offerings? They just need to get their act together?

Yes, I believe that's pretty much it.

Now, the current 24mm pce is an excellent lens already. It is seemingly not as good as the Canon 24mm ts when shifted, but it is very far from being the disaster some have described. At least my copy is.

So they would in fact not have to improve that much to come on top.

The rest is a matter of mgt priorities.

Cheers,
Bernard
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shadowblade

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Re: Lenses for D800 - where's the weak link?
« Reply #107 on: March 22, 2013, 12:03:20 AM »

It also doesn't shift as far (only a millimetre, but every millimetre counts when you're trying to make a huge panorama) and doesn't have independently-adjustable tilt and shift axes.

Hopefully the Samyang 24mm tilt-shift coming in May performs well optically, and Nikon goes ahead with the 17mm tilt-shift...
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Lenses for D800 - where's the weak link?
« Reply #108 on: March 22, 2013, 12:58:29 AM »

It also doesn't shift as far (only a millimetre, but every millimetre counts when you're trying to make a huge panorama) and doesn't have independently-adjustable tilt and shift axes.

I am still not sure to understand the value of those shift lenses for panorama imaging.

The corners, even on the excellent Canon 24mm ts, are significantly weaker than the center section of a good prime, so why not do spherical panos?



Shot with a 85mm f1.4 AF-S on a monopod.

Cheers,
Bernard
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shadowblade

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Re: Lenses for D800 - where's the weak link?
« Reply #109 on: March 22, 2013, 11:41:17 AM »

I am still not sure to understand the value of those shift lenses for panorama imaging.

The corners, even on the excellent Canon 24mm ts, are significantly weaker than the center section of a good prime, so why not do spherical panos?

Cheers,
Bernard

1. Because finding nodal points, etc. is a pain, and because pano rigs tend to be big and cumbersome to set up.

2. Because sometimes the stitching process for a spherical pano just fails and you can't put the image together. I've never had a shifted pano fail to stitch.

3. Because you can't easily use filters with a spherical pano, since the lens moves. When doing a shifted pano, you can use graduated ND filters (useful if there's a moving object in one part of the scene) and polarisers.

4. Because, even if the centre of a prime is sharper than the corners of a tilt-shift lens, the distortion induced by correcting the spherical pano into a rectilinear projection will make the corners of the final image worse than the corners of a shifted image, when you're dealing with the wider focal lengths.
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Lenses for D800 - where's the weak link?
« Reply #110 on: March 22, 2013, 01:42:49 PM »

Hi,

You have a tripod mount on the lens and shift the camera? Else you get a parallax problem with shifted panos.

Best regards
Erik


1. Because finding nodal points, etc. is a pain, and because pano rigs tend to be big and cumbersome to set up.

2. Because sometimes the stitching process for a spherical pano just fails and you can't put the image together. I've never had a shifted pano fail to stitch.

3. Because you can't easily use filters with a spherical pano, since the lens moves. When doing a shifted pano, you can use graduated ND filters (useful if there's a moving object in one part of the scene) and polarisers.

4. Because, even if the centre of a prime is sharper than the corners of a tilt-shift lens, the distortion induced by correcting the spherical pano into a rectilinear projection will make the corners of the final image worse than the corners of a shifted image, when you're dealing with the wider focal lengths.

MrSmith

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Re: Lenses for D800 - where's the weak link?
« Reply #111 on: March 22, 2013, 01:54:53 PM »

Hi,

You have a tripod mount on the lens and shift the camera? Else you get a parallax problem with shifted panos.

Best regards
Erik



i do, it's marked in mm so i can match the shift exactly in the opposite direction. but you only need to do that if there is something in the foreground. it's not always needed.
i thought about a nodal slide but i like to swap lenses around and switch from tripod to handheld and travel light so i have not bothered. if i had specific interiors to shoot i perhaps would get a slide for that occasion.
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shadowblade

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Re: Lenses for D800 - where's the weak link?
« Reply #112 on: March 23, 2013, 04:52:37 AM »

Hi,

You have a tripod mount on the lens and shift the camera? Else you get a parallax problem with shifted panos.

Best regards
Erik



Yep.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Lenses for D800 - where's the weak link?
« Reply #113 on: March 23, 2013, 10:58:42 AM »

1. Because finding nodal points, etc. is a pain, and because pano rigs tend to be big and cumbersome to set up.

2. Because sometimes the stitching process for a spherical pano just fails and you can't put the image together. I've never had a shifted pano fail to stitch.

3. Because you can't easily use filters with a spherical pano, since the lens moves. When doing a shifted pano, you can use graduated ND filters (useful if there's a moving object in one part of the scene) and polarisers.

4. Because, even if the centre of a prime is sharper than the corners of a tilt-shift lens, the distortion induced by correcting the spherical pano into a rectilinear projection will make the corners of the final image worse than the corners of a shifted image, when you're dealing with the wider focal lengths.

1. Euh not really. Finding the nodal point of a lens is a simple process performed only once. Pano heads are a bit bulky, but the good ones fold into a compact package. By the way the pano above was done without a pano head, not that I would recommend this as a best practise,

2. Never happened to me after thousands of spherical panos, not a single time. When using pano heads I also don't remember many occurences where blending issues occured, just a few with sea scenes at fast shutter speeds (zero issues when using slow shutter speeds obviously),

3. I can relate to what you are saying only for neutral grads if you do multi-rows panos... but I don't see any need for those filters in the first place with modern cameras like the D800. PL is not an issue, at least no more than with other wide angle options (meaning mostly a bad idea). But spherical pano has major advantages with flare control when using filters since the longer lens you are using typically have more protective hoods, this is also a major value when shooting in the rain for example,

4. Not with modern software like PT gui. There is of course an angular coverage beyond which a planar projection becomes impossible, but the information available on the faceted surface of the sphere of a mosaic stitch is not significantly less in the corners vs the center compared to the mosaic after projection on a plane. What is less, of course, is the amount of pixels available to cover the same angular section of the scene in the corners vs the center... but that is exactly the same with a single lens. If you haven't I encourage you to do this test by yourself, a 24mm is a good candidate.

So, I am sorry, but I am still not convinced.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: March 23, 2013, 06:01:35 PM by BernardLanguillier »
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ACH DIGITAL

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Re: Lenses for D800 - where's the weak link?
« Reply #114 on: March 24, 2013, 02:55:14 PM »

I would like to recommend this wonderful lens. The 85mm 1.8 G.
This portrait of my daughter, done at f/8 with studio flash.



100% view.



ACH
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MichaelEzra

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Re: Lenses for D800 - where's the weak link?
« Reply #115 on: March 24, 2013, 11:36:18 PM »

Turns out that Nikon 60mm AF-S F2.8 on D800e delivers superb results in real life shots.
I used it through the entire studio session today and areas in focus are sharp to my full satisfaction!

A couple of issues with this lens on D800e -
1. sometimes camera/lens combo cannot focus at a farther distance and requires a retry or a quick manual turn of the focus ring.
2. the slightly out of focus high contrast edges show color fringing. this effect can get prominent, but easily curable using defringing tool in RawTherapee/ ACR

FredBGG

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Re: Lenses for D800 - where's the weak link?
« Reply #116 on: March 25, 2013, 01:06:11 AM »

Turns out that Nikon 60mm AF-S F2.8 on D800e delivers superb results in real life shots.
I used it through the entire studio session today and areas in focus are sharp to my full satisfaction!

A couple of issues with this lens on D800e -
1. sometimes camera/lens combo cannot focus at a farther distance and requires a retry or a quick manual turn of the focus ring.
2. the slightly out of focus high contrast edges show color fringing. this effect can get prominent, but easily curable using defringing tool in RawTherapee/ ACR

Out of curiosity can the AF-S cover the 5x4 crop the D800 does?
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FranciscoDisilvestro

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Re: Lenses for D800 - where's the weak link?
« Reply #117 on: March 25, 2013, 02:02:55 AM »

Out of curiosity can the AF-S cover the 5x4 crop the D800 does?

The 60 mm AF-S 2.8 is an FX lens, so it does.

Regards

Enchanter

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Re: Lenses for D800 - where's the weak link?
« Reply #118 on: March 25, 2013, 03:57:06 AM »

Very nice portrait ACH DIGITAL.
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shadowblade

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Re: Lenses for D800 - where's the weak link?
« Reply #119 on: March 25, 2013, 08:59:20 AM »

1. Euh not really. Finding the nodal point of a lens is a simple process performed only once. Pano heads are a bit bulky, but the good ones fold into a compact package. By the way the pano above was done without a pano head, not that I would recommend this as a best practise,

2. Never happened to me after thousands of spherical panos, not a single time. When using pano heads I also don't remember many occurences where blending issues occured, just a few with sea scenes at fast shutter speeds (zero issues when using slow shutter speeds obviously),

Actually, this is the reason I switched to doing panos with a tilt-shift lens in the first place - after a trip to Mongolia, I ended up with too many spherical panos that Photoshop just wouldn't stitch properly.

Quote
3. I can relate to what you are saying only for neutral grads if you do multi-rows panos... but I don't see any need for those filters in the first place with modern cameras like the D800. PL is not an issue, at least no more than with other wide angle options (meaning mostly a bad idea). But spherical pano has major advantages with flare control when using filters since the longer lens you are using typically have more protective hoods, this is also a major value when shooting in the rain for example,

A lot of scenes still have enough dynamic range to benefit greatly from either a ND grad or HDR/image blending - and, by using a ND grad, you end up with half or one-third as many images to deal with later.
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