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Author Topic: The end of medium format ?  (Read 48084 times)

Steve Hendrix

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Re: The end of medium format ?
« Reply #241 on: December 11, 2012, 07:23:52 PM »

What are your year totals per year for new MF backs?

What is your income for this past several years?


Fred - I have no interest in your yearly income. But I also have no interest in providing my annual sales numbers to you. I've already stuck my neck out providing a ratio of technical cameras to medium format cameras. Sine we're one of the largest medium format suppliers on the planet, I would only say our annual totals for new MF Backs are plenty enough to allow us to hire 5 additional staff members over the past 2 years (doubling our ranks).


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
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Steve Hendrix
Sales Manager, www.captureintegration.com (e-mail Me)
MFDB: Phase One/Leaf-Mamiya/Hasselblad/Leica/Sinar
TechCam: Alpa/Cambo/Arca Swiss/Sinar
Direct: 404.543.8475

FredBGG

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Re: The end of medium format ?
« Reply #242 on: December 11, 2012, 08:32:21 PM »


Fred - I have no interest in your yearly income. But I also have no interest in providing my annual sales numbers to you. I've already stuck my neck out providing a ratio of technical cameras to medium format cameras. Sine we're one of the largest medium format suppliers on the planet, I would only say our annual totals for new MF Backs are plenty enough to allow us to hire 5 additional staff members over the past 2 years (doubling our ranks).


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration

Whoa....

I did not ask what your personal income was.  The thread was discussing market share. You were discussing numbers and percentages.... seems like a reasonable question seeing you did a quick check on the relative percentages of tech vs MFDB cameras
you'd have the numbers handy. I don't see how it would reveal your personal income in any way. Your company does more than just sell digital backs.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2012, 08:57:30 PM by FredBGG »
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Steve Hendrix

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Re: The end of medium format ?
« Reply #243 on: December 11, 2012, 09:06:40 PM »

Whoa....

I did not ask what your personal income was.  The thread was discussing market share. You were discussing numbers and percentages.... seems like a reasonable question seeing you did a quick check on the relative percentages of tech vs MFDB cameras
you'd have the numbers handy. I don't see how it would reveal your personal income in any way. Your company does more than just sell digital backs.


Fred -

Are you out of your flippin' mind?


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
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Steve Hendrix
Sales Manager, www.captureintegration.com (e-mail Me)
MFDB: Phase One/Leaf-Mamiya/Hasselblad/Leica/Sinar
TechCam: Alpa/Cambo/Arca Swiss/Sinar
Direct: 404.543.8475

gerald.d

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Re: The end of medium format ?
« Reply #244 on: December 11, 2012, 09:41:27 PM »


Fred -

Are you out of your flippin' mind?


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration

I don't think he's out of his mind at all.

The fact that dealers are so protective regarding the quantity of one specific product category that they sell is pretty illuminating.

Regardless. You've provided sufficient information already to work out a ballpark figure anyway.
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HarperPhotos

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Re: The end of medium format ?
« Reply #245 on: December 11, 2012, 09:59:47 PM »

Hello,

My guess is the total sales of Phase/Leaf backs per year would be about 100 units world wide.

Cheers

Simon
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Simon Harper
Harper Photographics Ltd
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Auckland, New Zealand

Steve Hendrix

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Re: The end of medium format ?
« Reply #246 on: December 11, 2012, 10:00:13 PM »

I don't think he's out of his mind at all.

The fact that dealers are so protective regarding the quantity of one specific product category that they sell is pretty illuminating.

Regardless. You've provided sufficient information already to work out a ballpark figure anyway.


No, he is out of his mind.

The protection of our sales numbers is not illuminating of anything other than the fact we simply do not publicly discuss our sales figures. It is as simple as that. Especially on a public forum where real data and information is twisted into misinformation and personal agendas are so rampant. Further - I find the credibility and motivations of the requestor to be malicious in nature and function.

I provided no information for anyone to work out any ballpark on our sales figures. Someone wondered about the ratio of tech cameras to medium format cameras, in combination with digital back sales. In the spirit of the forum as a helpful place for photographers - I offered certain data, which has a value and is potentially sensitive. That's it.


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
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Steve Hendrix
Sales Manager, www.captureintegration.com (e-mail Me)
MFDB: Phase One/Leaf-Mamiya/Hasselblad/Leica/Sinar
TechCam: Alpa/Cambo/Arca Swiss/Sinar
Direct: 404.543.8475

Steve Hendrix

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Re: The end of medium format ?
« Reply #247 on: December 11, 2012, 10:01:09 PM »

Hello,

My guess is the total sales of Phase/Leaf backs per year would be about 100 units world wide.

Cheers

Simon



Thanks for proving my point Simon.


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
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Steve Hendrix
Sales Manager, www.captureintegration.com (e-mail Me)
MFDB: Phase One/Leaf-Mamiya/Hasselblad/Leica/Sinar
TechCam: Alpa/Cambo/Arca Swiss/Sinar
Direct: 404.543.8475

gerald.d

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Re: The end of medium format ?
« Reply #248 on: December 11, 2012, 10:07:36 PM »


No, he is out of his mind.

The protection of our sales numbers is not illuminating of anything other than the fact we simply do not publicly discuss our sales figures. It is as simple as that. Especially on a public forum where real data and information is twisted into misinformation and personal agendas are so rampant. Further - I find the credibility and motivations of the requestor to be malicious in nature and function.

I provided no information for anyone to work out any ballpark on our sales figures. Someone wondered about the ratio of tech cameras to medium format cameras, in combination with digital back sales. In the spirit of the forum as a helpful place for photographers - I offered certain data, which has a value and is potentially sensitive. That's it.


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration

You provided staffing numbers. That, along with the assumption that it's a well run business, and the structure of your website, is sufficient to come up with a ballpark figure.

As an aside, the ad hominem attacks on members here by dealers is totally unnecessary.
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FredBGG

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Re: The end of medium format ?
« Reply #249 on: December 11, 2012, 10:15:08 PM »


Fred -

Are you out of your flippin' mind?


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration



No, he is out of his mind.


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration

I was going to leave it at that, but calling me out of my mind twice for simply asking a follow up question
how many new digital backs are sold is uncalled for. As I said before you had offered up some figures regarding MF Backs.
It was simply a follow up question to get an idea of the size of the market.

You and Doug could simply have stated that that it private. No big deal. Well actually I didn't even ask Doug.

What is your income for this past several years?

I think that that is not relevant. I would say that the equivalent question to ask a celebrity/portrait photographer
who he/she has photographed and how many shoots.


« Last Edit: December 12, 2012, 12:24:30 AM by FredBGG »
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Steve Hendrix

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Re: The end of medium format ?
« Reply #250 on: December 11, 2012, 10:32:01 PM »

You provided staffing numbers. That, along with the assumption that it's a well run business, and the structure of your website, is sufficient to come up with a ballpark figure.

As an aside, the ad hominem attacks on members here by dealers is totally unnecessary.

Gerald - we sell more than just digital backs. In fact, our sales in 2011 increased by a higher percentage in other categories than digital backs. Nonetheless, I'm wondering what ballpark figure you came up with. Really it makes no difference.

Are ad hominem attacks on members by other members  (besides dealer members) ok?

I'll take back that Fred is out of his mind. I think he is very much in his mind. And knows exactly what he is doing. It's a shame how some on this forum command a huge amount of time and attention by providing agenda-driven slanted criticism or misinformation. I am sorry, but I feel strongly about this and feel it is a huge disservice to the forum.


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration

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Steve Hendrix
Sales Manager, www.captureintegration.com (e-mail Me)
MFDB: Phase One/Leaf-Mamiya/Hasselblad/Leica/Sinar
TechCam: Alpa/Cambo/Arca Swiss/Sinar
Direct: 404.543.8475

gerald.d

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Re: The end of medium format ?
« Reply #251 on: December 11, 2012, 10:34:21 PM »

General comment -

Please could I ask people not to send me private messages making defamatory personal comments about individuals.

Many thanks.
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Steve Hendrix

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Re: The end of medium format ?
« Reply #252 on: December 11, 2012, 10:37:18 PM »

General comment -

Please could I ask people not to send me private messages making defamatory personal comments about individuals.

Many thanks.

I would like it to be noted that I have not sent any private message to Gerald. I agree with Gerald that whoever sent the message to him should not have.


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
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Steve Hendrix
Sales Manager, www.captureintegration.com (e-mail Me)
MFDB: Phase One/Leaf-Mamiya/Hasselblad/Leica/Sinar
TechCam: Alpa/Cambo/Arca Swiss/Sinar
Direct: 404.543.8475

bcooter

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Re: The end of medium format ?
« Reply #253 on: December 11, 2012, 11:11:01 PM »

I would hope there are 2,000, or 10,000 or 20,000 digital backs sold a year.

These numbers might be a stretch, but the more professional equipment sold, the better the signs of a healthy industry.

I know some people think mfdbs are priced high, heck even at times I've felt like that, but when you step back and look at it, professional equipment always cost more than prosumer equipment and should.

But just for the record I don't believe that anyone has a right to know what a privately held company sells or receives in gross and net income.

That's between the owners, the government and well . . . that's it.

You know for years I've heard photographers say, ___________ (fill in the blank with any well known celebrity photographer) makes 6 figures a day and that's waaaay too much.

I've always felt the opposite, because the more the top person in any industry makes, the higher the bar, the more respected the industry is.

The sad thing is this thread started out with a negative title and now has even taken a turn for the worse.

Steve, who I know well, answered a question about tech camera use to be helpful and did so without any intentions other than to inform.

That now has been once again twisted to the negative for reasons that make absolutely no sense to me.

For the record, this week were shooting a day and mostly night time project with a Canon 1dx at about a gazaillion ISO. (whatever ISO is).

The file is pretty good, the focus is pretty good, but this is a very specialized project with a lot of low light LEDs and a lot of night shooting.

I rented the 1dx(s) and today asked for quotes to buy one or two.  The thing is I'm almost positive that at the end of two years I'll probably sell it and I'll just bet you in those two years I'll still own and still be working with my digital backs.

The d800 might be a good camera, but I've got 30 something megapixel cameras that are paid for and work very well and have deep rich ccd files which I find superior to any cmos file I've shot.

They don't do what a 1dx does, the 1dx does not do what they do.

Others may feel different, but that doesn't matter to me.

What does is this week we have three magliners full of cameras and we're using them all.  From Canons to Nikons to RED Ones, a Scarlet and our Contax/Phase(s).

Clients noticed them all and the cameras they noticed the most were the original RED 1's and the Contax, mostly because they are just different looking than the standard dslr.

Now does that make me a better photographer . . . no . . .did owning those cameras get me the gig . . . no. . . but in a client's mind does this add to the professionalism of the project.  I believe yes, because it was mentioned.

This is a competitive industry and everyone that prospers must be 100% complete with presentation, estimation, creative treatments, performance, crew, equipment, post production, and final billing.

So, I hope the medium format industry stays healthy.

I hope all segments of the professional photography industries prosper . . . myself included.

IMO

BC


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Vladimirovich

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Re: The end of medium format ?
« Reply #254 on: December 11, 2012, 11:18:55 PM »


But just for the record I don't believe that anyone has a right to know what a privately held company sells or receives in gross and net income.

That's between the owners, the government and well . . . that's it.


what about a bank if you apply for a loan ? may it ?
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FredBGG

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Re: The end of medium format ?
« Reply #255 on: December 11, 2012, 11:27:12 PM »

I would like it to be noted that I have not sent any private message to Gerald. I agree with Gerald that whoever sent the message to him should not have.


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration

Wasn't me either.
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Vladimirovich

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Re: The end of medium format ?
« Reply #256 on: December 11, 2012, 11:28:45 PM »

I rented the 1dx(s) and today asked for quotes to buy one or two.  The thing is I'm almost positive that at the end of two years I'll probably sell it and I'll just bet you in those two years I'll still own and still be working with my digital backs.

that simply tells that 2 years later you will have a much-much better dSLRs at a lower cost and you will not have a much much better digital backs at a lower cost, that's it to it
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FredBGG

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Re: The end of medium format ?
« Reply #257 on: December 11, 2012, 11:35:15 PM »



I'll take back that Fred is out of his mind. I think he is very much in his mind. And knows exactly what he is doing. It's a shame how some on this forum command a huge amount of time and attention by providing agenda-driven slanted criticism or misinformation. I am sorry, but I feel strongly about this and feel it is a huge disservice to the forum.

Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration



Please feel free to point out any mistakes in information I post and refrain from these personal attacks.
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: The end of medium format ?
« Reply #258 on: December 12, 2012, 12:13:59 AM »

Hi,

My guess that you miss a zero. I'd think that Phase/Leaf/Mamiya would not be able to operate successfully with just 100/year WW.

Best regards
Erik

Hello,

My guess is the total sales of Phase/Leaf backs per year would be about 100 units world wide.

Cheers

Simon

jeremypayne

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Re: The end of medium format ?
« Reply #259 on: December 12, 2012, 12:15:40 AM »

What a tempest in a teapot.

For the record, literally millions of private companies disclose financial results.  D&B sells the data.  In some countries, the results are filed with regulators and made public ... albeit slowly.  

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