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Author Topic: Atelier  (Read 6390 times)

RSL

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Re: Atelier
« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2012, 07:28:35 PM »

The crop weakens the shot.

Yes, I very well know that changing a lens takes time and it risks loosing an opportunity. But in this case, the scene itself was likely relatively static and there was a lot more to be gained by taking the time to look at other aspects.  So I'll stand by my comment earlier in that this is a banal image in a setting that could have produced more.

Hi Jenn, I agree that the crop weakens the shot. , and, for the first time I can remember I don't agree with Seamus's crop. I think the best version is the first, uncropped one -- minus the bright stripe on the tree behind the guy's head.

But you sound like BD now. I remember when he explained all the various positions I could have taken in order to improve a shot that existed for probably not more than two seconds -- at the outside. You sound as if it would be possible to get out my tripod and cable release, arrange the people, and make a shot. Believe me, the situation produced one shot, and I was lucky even then. Things held together for less than a second. After I lowered my camera and passed the hotel yard where this was taking place the scene dissolved for good, as most good scenes will. I could tell that the woman wasn't especially happy to have her workshop photographed.

I think calling the image banal is going pretty far, but I certainly don't consider it one of my better street shots. I hope I can get over the St. Augustine in the near future and do better.

michswiss

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Re: Atelier
« Reply #21 on: November 15, 2012, 12:22:34 AM »


But you sound like BD now...


Thanks for the compliment!  ;D

WalterEG

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Re: Atelier
« Reply #22 on: November 15, 2012, 03:30:27 AM »

Who or what is BD?  I feel I am missing something.

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stamper

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Re: Atelier
« Reply #23 on: November 15, 2012, 04:30:13 AM »

If I hadn't seen the first image then I would have thought the second was "fine". Normally I dislike clutter which means that I am a fan of cropping and on the odd occasion cloning. The elements  -imo - in the background are harmonious to the subject and not clutter, therefore they are part of the overall scene. The image works well in both versions but I prefer the first because there is more of a story.  :)

michswiss

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Re: Atelier
« Reply #25 on: November 15, 2012, 05:18:41 AM »

Here's a link to a bio for B.D. Colen.  Suffice it to say, he's able to get under Russ's skin.

seamus finn

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Re: Atelier
« Reply #26 on: November 15, 2012, 05:31:47 AM »

So, cropping isn't all bad, huh!
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WalterEG

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Re: Atelier
« Reply #27 on: November 15, 2012, 06:28:47 AM »

Suffice it to say, he's able to get under Russ's skin.

Oh, so he is not a solitary soul then, Jen?

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stamper

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Re: Atelier
« Reply #28 on: November 15, 2012, 06:32:14 AM »

So, cropping isn't all bad, huh!

Unquote

Of course not! You should have an open mind as to it's merits. I quite often shoot wider than a "good" composition suggests knowing I might want to crop later especially if there is perspective issues you may have to deal with later in Photoshop. I once put an image into a camera club competition that I had framed tight. The judge explained that framed looser would have made the image better and why. Being flexible is best?

WalterEG

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Re: Atelier
« Reply #29 on: November 15, 2012, 06:39:16 AM »

The judge explained that framed looser would have made the image better and why. Being flexible is best?

Ain't that the troof Stamper,

One to crochet into your pillow slip.

Cheers,

Walter
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petermfiore

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Re: Atelier
« Reply #30 on: November 15, 2012, 07:11:08 AM »


 The judge explained that framed looser would have made the image better and why. Being flexible is best?
[/quote]

Another truth, "You can't mine gold where it isn't".


Peter
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amolitor

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Re: Atelier
« Reply #31 on: November 15, 2012, 07:29:22 AM »

Cropping it to just the group of three does make it more "street" but it becomes bad street! There's a *little* more interest there, but not enough.

The tight crop on just the two is a completely different photograph, and as I mull it, I like it better. There's an interesting dynamic there, I feel like one is a teacher and the other a student, but I don't know which one. This is also present in the larger photo, of course, but the larger photo has more stuff, and another easel in the background and so on.

The original crop is, to my eye, definitely street. Russ is right that it's lacking some stuff to be really good street, but I like it pretty well. If it was mine, I might print it and hang it where I can see it for a while. I think it's a photograph that might take me a year to see that it's excellent or awful, but I feel like after a year I'd know one way or the other ;)
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seamus finn

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Re: Atelier
« Reply #32 on: November 15, 2012, 08:47:56 AM »

Quote
So, cropping isn't all bad, huh!

Unquote

Of course not! You should have an open mind as to it's merits. I quite often shoot wider than a "good" composition suggests knowing I might want to crop later especially if there is perspective issues you may have to deal with later in Photoshop. I once put an image into a camera club competition that I had framed tight. The judge explained that framed looser would have made the image better and why. Being flexible is best?

Don't get me wrong - I have nothing against cropping, but some are pathologically against it. 
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Chris Calohan

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Re: Atelier
« Reply #33 on: November 15, 2012, 10:01:08 AM »

This is an image I only gave a passing glance to when first viewed. Sometimes Russ's images catch my eye and give cause for long perusals, but like anyone's work, sometimes I just give it the old, ho-hum and move to the next image in the thread. It was just today when I gave his edit and some of the others more interest and wondered if in the cropping, it wasn't the figure to the right that was as bothersome as omitting the figure in the back. This figure, while quite OOF still gives context to the scene, doesn't detract from the primary focus point and omits the figure to the right. A little crop, a little cloning, 16:9 vertical crop.

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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Atelier
« Reply #34 on: November 15, 2012, 10:11:24 AM »

... I think it's a photograph that might take me a year to see that it's excellent or awful...

Luckily, given that I already spent 40 years looking at photographs, I really wouldn't have to waste another one on this one ;)

Chris Calohan

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Re: Atelier
« Reply #35 on: November 15, 2012, 10:22:32 AM »

One of the things I had to do with students, espcially the younger ones was find something positive to build on. Sometimes it was ..hmmm, dare I say a challenge. Today in my unlearning/relearning process, I have the same luxury as you, Slobodan but I still find myself studying other's works to find that extra something in the shot that I didn't see before. Russ would be the first to admit the shot is okay but not great but had enough interest to catch his eye and do some exploration...it's all good in the end.
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jeremypayne

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Re: Atelier
« Reply #36 on: November 15, 2012, 10:42:39 AM »

Russ would be the first to admit the shot is okay but not great but had enough interest to catch his eye and do some exploration...it's all good in the end.

But ... I still don't get why this is interesting ... two perfect strangers standing on sidewalk.  So what?

This is faaaaaar more boring and banal to me than most of the shots that Russ criticizes out-of-hand of "rocks and trees".

Why would you want to capture THIS moment and bring it home with you?  You would put this on your wall?  Why?
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amolitor

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Re: Atelier
« Reply #37 on: November 15, 2012, 10:52:50 AM »

Slobodan, I'd be doing other things during that year, and also time spent looking at photos, like time spent playing the piano, is never wasted.
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RSL

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Re: Atelier
« Reply #38 on: November 15, 2012, 11:10:12 AM »

Luckily, given that I already spent 40 years looking at photographs, I really wouldn't have to waste another one on this one ;)

Don't despair Slobodan, your critical faculties will improve as you continue to look at them for the next thirty years. I can guarantee that from 70 years of looking at them and shooting them.

RSL

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Re: Atelier
« Reply #39 on: November 15, 2012, 11:11:51 AM »

Bad Dude?  ;)

Not at all, Stamper. He's a good journalist, but I won't comment on his photographs. You can go to his web to make your own decision about that.
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