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Author Topic: Photoshop Save for Web - Embed Color Profile or not ?  (Read 13416 times)

Phil Corley

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Photoshop Save for Web - Embed Color Profile or not ?
« on: November 07, 2012, 05:09:50 PM »

Whilst doing some testing between Lightroom and Photoshop, I noticed a difference with the JPEGs produced via LR's Export to sRGB and Photoshop's Save for Web Device.

When I examined the JPEGs, I see LR embeds an sRGB Profile but Photoshop doesn't (unless the Embed Profile option is selected) and saves the images "untagged RGB" without a profile.

My question is, which is right - should LR be embedding the Profile or should I be embedding the Profile when Saving from Photoshop?

A search of the web seems to provide an equal answer about embedding a profile, so appreciate what people think here

Many thanks

Phil
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Photoshop Save for Web - Embed Color Profile or not ?
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2012, 05:14:11 PM »

If you are purposing JPEGs to the internet for people to view the images on their uncalibrated and unprofiled displays, the safest way of keeping the images having any semblance of how you intend they should look is to embed sRGB colour space and make sure that Black Point Compensation is selected.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml

louoates

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Re: Photoshop Save for Web - Embed Color Profile or not ?
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2012, 06:46:54 PM »

If you are purposing JPEGs to the internet for people to view the images on their uncalibrated and unprofiled displays, the safest way of keeping the images having any semblance of how you intend they should look is to embed sRGB colour space and make sure that Black Point Compensation is selected.

Quite correct. If you want to prove this for yourself, go onto your own website at the local library and see what ghastly color you see.
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Photoshop Save for Web - Embed Color Profile or not ?
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2012, 07:42:45 PM »

I prepare my stuff in a properly colour-managed environment and generate my galleries in Lightroom where the colour management is handled under the hood, but pretty much in the way I indicated. Before I publish them I verify them on another display in the house which is not intentionally colour-managed - it's rather at manufacturer defaults - you know - too bright and saturated, to make sure they don't view as *egregiously* off-base - this stuff always being a bit of a crap shoot, because we can't know how millions of monitors are displaying images; most of the time they're OK to post based on that one test 0 - all I have time for frankly. So I don't know if you're talking about my site in particular, or what monitor in which library, but time permitting I'll check it out in *auspicious places* to see what you could mean. Could be "enlightening" :-( .
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml

samueljohnchia

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Re: Photoshop Save for Web - Embed Color Profile or not ?
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2012, 09:04:22 PM »

If you are purposing JPEGs to the internet for people to view the images on their uncalibrated and unprofiled displays, the safest way of keeping the images having any semblance of how you intend they should look is to embed sRGB colour space and make sure that Black Point Compensation is selected.

Mark, if you are converting between working RGB spaces, where black is L*0, black point compensation does not make any difference to the result when its checked. It is ok to leave it unchecked then.
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Photoshop Save for Web - Embed Color Profile or not ?
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2012, 09:39:33 PM »

For surety (especially any time you don't know with certainty that L*0 applies) there is no harm leaving it checked. This is the safest guidance for the purposes of most users.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml

digitaldog

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Re: Photoshop Save for Web - Embed Color Profile or not ?
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2012, 09:41:26 AM »

Mark, if you are converting between working RGB spaces, where black is L*0, black point compensation does not make any difference to the result when its checked. It is ok to leave it unchecked then.

Always have BPC on. It either does nothing because no compensation is needed or it's needed and you want it on.
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Andrew Rodney
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MarkM

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Re: Photoshop Save for Web - Embed Color Profile or not ?
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2012, 07:09:09 PM »

Phil, embedding the profile is especially important for Mac users — and doubly so for those using wide gamut displays. Safari's interpretation of untagged (at least in OS 10.6) images renders them in the monitor's space (a boneheaded default for a web browser in my opinion). This means that even in a well calibrated environment untagged sRGB images can look awful on monitors unless the monitor space happens to be close to sRGB.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2012, 08:55:04 PM by MarkM »
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Phil Corley

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Re: Photoshop Save for Web - Embed Color Profile or not ?
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2012, 04:30:26 AM »

Thanks Guys

Mark: You are right - they look awful on Safari on a wide-gamut display.   That is what made me notice the difference with my exports from LR and Save for Web from Photoshop; the Photoshop saves were bad!  Now I am embedding the profile they are almost the same as LR's

Phil
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DennisAnderson

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Re: Photoshop Save for Web - Embed Color Profile or not ?
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2012, 06:45:46 AM »

Hi,

You cannot be assured that whatever browser is used will do the right thing so sRGB is the lowest common denominator colorspace. I often use Save for Web when converting to jpg for web display however this process takes more time than exporting in Lightroom so if I have several images to process I typically just export from LR. Also be aware that most internet browsers are not color managed and will not respect the embedded color profile. Firefox and Safari are, and I know that IE is not, I'm not sure about all of the others. I am not sure how using flash changes things...

-Dennis
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