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Author Topic: People who ask about the D800 have never experienced medium format  (Read 49807 times)

ErikKaffehr

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Re: People who ask about the D800 have never experienced medium format
« Reply #180 on: October 19, 2012, 03:47:51 PM »

Hi,

You suggest that QPcard is preferable to the more well known Xrite solutions? Why? More relevant patches?

Best regards
Erik

I'm seriously thinking about it.

TMARK

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Re: People who ask about the D800 have never experienced medium format
« Reply #181 on: October 19, 2012, 04:05:00 PM »

Hi,

You suggest that QPcard is preferable to the more well known Xrite solutions? Why? More relevant patches?

Best regards
Erik


I've only used XRite. 
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deejjjaaaa

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Re: People who ask about the D800 have never experienced medium format
« Reply #182 on: October 19, 2012, 04:20:37 PM »

Hi,

You suggest that QPcard is preferable to the more well known Xrite solutions? Why? More relevant patches?

Best regards
Erik


I was suggested the following test - take a shot of both QPCard and XRite together (side by side in one shot)... make QPCard based profile, make XRite based profile... make conversion using QPCard profile, make conversion using XRite profile... compare how XRite target is rendered using QPCard profile vs how QPCard target is rendered using XRite profile (using BabelColor PatchTool or similar)... note - the same raw with both targets together.... naturally the color is a matter of taste and hence all that is irrelevant.

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ErikKaffehr

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Re: People who ask about the D800 have never experienced medium format
« Reply #183 on: October 19, 2012, 04:39:02 PM »

Hi,

Seriously, the Xrite has only two patches that are close skin (light skin and dark skin), the QPcard has a different set of patches and may be more relevant for some work. On the other hand the Xrite CC is the industry standard.

I guess it is better to start from a reasonably correct color reproduction and season it to taste than start with bad colors and making them nice.

Best regards
Erik




I was suggested the following test - take a shot of both QPCard and XRite together (side by side in one shot)... make QPCard based profile, make XRite based profile... make conversion using QPCard profile, make conversion using XRite profile... compare how XRite target is rendered using QPCard profile vs how QPCard target is rendered using XRite profile (using BabelColor PatchTool or similar)... note - the same raw with both targets together.... naturally the color is a matter of taste and hence all that is irrelevant.


deejjjaaaa

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Re: People who ask about the D800 have never experienced medium format
« Reply #184 on: October 19, 2012, 07:44:53 PM »

Seriously, the Xrite has only two patches that are close skin (light skin and dark skin), the QPcard has a different set of patches and may be more relevant for some work. On the other hand the Xrite CC is the industry standard.

but then if you are using Argyll you can just take a shot of both targets together and build a profile based on all patches... and add datacolor's target on top of that... but at that cost you can buy already a ColorChecker SG.
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TMARK

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Re: People who ask about the D800 have never experienced medium format
« Reply #185 on: October 22, 2012, 01:12:13 PM »

About the D800 color: The C1 profile seems optimised for high noon clear sky daylight, and strobes.  Great color under lights with C1 (Profoto D1s).  A tad over saturated, but nice.  No odd green/yellow bias.  It just needs profiles for "other" lighting.
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Bernd B.

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Here is one picture taken with a D800 and my Nikkor 85/1,4 AF-S at ISO 100, f/1,4 and 1/2500sec, developed in LR 4, lens profiles and CR removal checked.

Look at that CA above the hand. Isīnt that sick? CA in the center of an image???

Look at the purple fringing on the entire shirt. It renders the grey shirt purple.

With my Hasselnlad H3D39 and my first generation HC 150/3,2 at f/3,2 there is still some amount of purple fringing, but much much less.

My idea of shooting 35mm (D700 until now) is not only to have less effort when shooting, but also having less post production. Not sure if this works with the D800 files ....







Bernd
« Last Edit: October 31, 2012, 09:57:50 AM by Bernd B. »
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ErikKaffehr

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Hi,

That is LoCA Longitudional Chromatic Aberration. It is a lens problem. LR has an option to remove it.

It will go away if you stop down to f/4. Try that first. I will post a link on LoCa removal in LR later tonight.

LoCA is something that almost all fast lenses suffer of.

Best regards
Erik

Here is one picture taken with a D800 and my Nikkor 85/1,4 AF-S at ISO 100, f/1,4 and 1/2500sec, developed in LR 4, lens profiles and CR removal checked.

Look at that CA above the hand. Itīs that sick? CA in the center of an image???

Look at the purple fringing on the entire shirt. It renders the grey shirt purple.

With my Hasselnlad H3D39 and my first generation HC 150/3,2 at f/3,2 there is still some amount of purple fringing, but much much less.

My idea of shooting 35mm (D700 until now) is not only to have less effort when shooting, but also having less post production. Not sure if this works with the D800 files ....







Bernd

Bernd B.

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Re: People who ask about the D800 have never experienced medium format
« Reply #188 on: October 31, 2012, 10:06:05 AM »

Thanks Erik. Iīm looking forward to your hint how to remove that.

Did you realize that I checked "CA removal" in LR? Did you mean something else?

BTW shooting at f/4 is not an option. I will not pay a fortune for a brand new f/1,4 lens in order to get a soft background and then stop down to f/4.

Bernd

« Last Edit: October 31, 2012, 10:09:04 AM by Bernd B. »
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: People who ask about the D800 have never experienced medium format
« Reply #189 on: October 31, 2012, 10:12:08 AM »

Hi,

Check this: http://blogs.adobe.com/lightroomjournal/2012/04/new-color-fringe-correction-controls.html

The problem looks like LoCA to me, but I'm not absolutely sure.

LoCA is a problem with almost all lenses at f/1.4.


Best regards
Erik

TMARK

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Re: People who ask about the D800 have never experienced medium format
« Reply #190 on: October 31, 2012, 10:28:27 AM »

Thanks Erik. Iīm looking forward to your hint how to remove that.

Did you realize that I checked "CA removal" in LR? Did you mean something else?

BTW shooting at f/4 is not an option. I will not pay a fortune for a brand new f/1,4 lens in order to get a soft background and then stop down to f/4.

Bernd



The old 1.4D and the 1.4AIS seem better than the new 85 1.4G.  Same with the old 50 1.4D versus the new 1.4G.  Also, try Nikon Capture.  It really is not bad at all.  I avoided it due to my experience with the old version from the D2x days.  The new version is fine.

In LR, you have to click on the CA for it to remove the color.  Works well and I believe it would fix this right up.  It is a paste-able setting so it can be applied to all images in a shoot, I believe.

T
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Doug Peterson

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Re: People who ask about the D800 have never experienced medium format
« Reply #191 on: October 31, 2012, 10:43:53 AM »

I STRONGLY encourage you to open this file in C1 and turn on the purple fringing and CA removal tools. I suspect very much that you'll find C1 handles it much better with no hassle. Or send me the raw file and I'll do it and post the results.

TMARK

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Re: People who ask about the D800 have never experienced medium format
« Reply #192 on: October 31, 2012, 11:37:10 AM »

I STRONGLY encourage you to open this file in C1 and turn on the purple fringing and CA removal tools. I suspect very much that you'll find C1 handles it much better with no hassle. Or send me the raw file and I'll do it and post the results.

Doug, you have power?

And yes, C1's tools work well.  Works wonders on Mamiya and Canon files.  I've never used the CA tools with D800e files.
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Bernd B.

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Re: People who ask about the D800 have never experienced medium format
« Reply #193 on: October 31, 2012, 11:39:42 AM »

Thanks Erik and T. I just found out that I have only LR 4.0 on my MacPro. I will update to 4.2 and try again!

Thanks Doug! I used C1pro frequently until about 18 months ago. I even updated to 6 this January but never used it again, because I prefer the more natural look, expecially of the colors in LR. Indeed I must admit that sharpness in C1pro is miles ahead of any other raw converter (whilst noise rendering isīnt, after my my taste).

Bernd

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Doug Peterson

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Re: People who ask about the D800 have never experienced medium format
« Reply #194 on: October 31, 2012, 12:07:44 PM »

Thanks Erik and T. I just found out that I have only LR 4.0 on my MacPro. I will update to 4.2 and try again!

Thanks Doug! I used C1pro frequently until about 18 months ago. I even updated to 6 this January but never used it again, because I prefer the more natural look, expecially of the colors in LR. Indeed I must admit that sharpness in C1pro is miles ahead of any other raw converter (whilst noise rendering isīnt, after my my taste).

Noise reduction was hugely improved in the v7 release. I'd put it ahead of LR by a good margin (of course this depends on what aesthetic for high ISO images you prefer so test for yourself).

And the color editor can very quickly produce different color renderings which can be saved as presets, defaults, or even as an ICC profile (future proof).

Maybe time to take one of our online or in person c1 classes?

Bernd B.

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D800 + 85/1,4 AF-S file reprocessed in LR 4.2
« Reply #195 on: October 31, 2012, 12:15:32 PM »

OK, here is what I could make out of it in LR 4.2.

The purple fringing on the shirt has become way better, thats impressive.

The CA on the hand has become better as well, but it is still visible. There seems to be no control for the orange silhouette.

My C1pro 6.3.3 cannot read D800 files and I do not want to invest on it any further, so I leave this option off. I think general color rendition is dependent on the raw engine and cannot be emulated or altered. Whilst the strange rendition of noise in C1pro becomes visible at higher ISO, general color rendition is present at any ISO. Sorry, I know C1pro has its strength (by far the best sharpness of all raw converters, powerful color-editior, especially useful on skin tones), but I dropped it for good reasons (e.g. my personal taste).

Bernd







« Last Edit: October 31, 2012, 12:26:58 PM by Bernd B. »
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Doug Peterson

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Re: D800 + 85/1,4 AF-S file reprocessed in LR 4.2
« Reply #196 on: October 31, 2012, 12:50:54 PM »

OK, here is what I could make out of it in LR 4.2.

The purple fringing on the shirt has become way better, thats impressive.

The CA on the hand has become better as well, but it is still visible. There seems to be no control for the orange silhouette.

My C1pro 6.3.3 cannot read D800 files and I do not want to invest on it any further, so I leave this option off. I think general color rendition is dependent on the raw engine and cannot be emulated or altered. Whilst the strange rendition of noise in C1pro becomes visible at higher ISO, general color rendition is present at any ISO. Sorry, I know C1pro has its strength (by far the best sharpness of all raw converters, powerful color-editior, especially useful on skin tones), but I dropped it for good reasons (e.g. my personal taste).

6.4.4 supports the D800 files, no additional investment required.

7.0 can be run in fully functional trial mode for 60 days. I'd suggest trying that versus beating your head against the wall. General color rendition is fungible, only the defaults and the ability to differentiate between colors (especially in shadows) is inherent in the engine. I'm quite confident I could match in C1 whatever aspects of LR color you find pleasant.

ErikKaffehr

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Re: D800 + 85/1,4 AF-S file reprocessed in LR 4.2
« Reply #197 on: October 31, 2012, 12:56:10 PM »

Hi,

I still think that it would be a good idea to test camera + lens at f/4, just to find out if it is really LoCA we see. We need to find the cause so we can prescribe the correct medicine.

You could perhaps post the raw image so we can download and check out?

You could also start a new thread here on LuLa. I know that Eric Chan stops by now and then but I don't think he looks at old Nikon vs. MF threads.

Best regards
Erik

OK, here is what I could make out of it in LR 4.2.

The purple fringing on the shirt has become way better, thats impressive.

The CA on the hand has become better as well, but it is still visible. There seems to be no control for the orange silhouette.


ErikKaffehr

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Re: People who ask about the D800 have never experienced medium format
« Reply #198 on: November 01, 2012, 01:34:30 AM »

Hi,

Moving the hue slider a bit to the right may help, but may have other side effects. See enclosed screen dump.

Diglloyd has found out that some fringing may come from UV or IR. I'll see if I can find that article. So if you have an UV or IR-cut filter laying around you could test.

Best regards
Erik



Bernd B.

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Re: People who ask about the D800 have never experienced medium format
« Reply #199 on: November 01, 2012, 06:16:04 AM »

Thank you, Eric! But your tweak turns parts of the hand grey.

Bernd
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