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Author Topic: Skintones: Aptus 22 / D700 / Film Kodak - Fuji / (P40+) (P45) (P45+) (SAMPLES)  (Read 28112 times)

RyuuzakiJulio

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Re: Skintones: Aptus 22 / D700 / Film Kodak - Fuji / (P40+) (P45) (P45+)
« Reply #20 on: September 23, 2012, 04:25:18 pm »

Ryu,
Thanks for posting all the images and your experiences. As others have said, nice work!
Eric
ps. I like the porta 160 ... 

Thank you so much EricWHiss!

You like the Portra because of the landscape? Here are a few more from that pirate shoot.




And if you like landscapes, check this shoot I did in a temple in Japan with Fujicolor






I hope you enjoy them.

Ryu 8)
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RyuuzakiJulio

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Re: Skintones: Aptus 22 / D700 / Film Kodak - Fuji / (P40+) (P45) (P45+)
« Reply #21 on: September 23, 2012, 04:32:33 pm »

Hi Bohngy,

Selective Colour
Cyan –30
Magenta +15
Black –30
Relative
Pushed the Curves from the centre
Curves Linar Contrast
Imogenomic Portraiture Default.

Cheers

Simon

Bohngy? What was this about Simon?
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Chairman Bill

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Re: Skintones: Aptus 22 / D700 / Film Kodak - Fuji / (P40+) (P45) (P45+)
« Reply #22 on: September 23, 2012, 05:24:43 pm »

What's all this about one camera being better than another; I thought it was the photographer, not the equipment  ;)

RyuuzakiJulio

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Re: Skintones: Aptus 22 / D700 / Film Kodak - Fuji / (P40+) (P45) (P45+)
« Reply #23 on: September 23, 2012, 05:48:17 pm »

What's all this about one camera being better than another; I thought it was the photographer, not the equipment  ;)

You are joking right?
This are two different concepts.
  • The subject matter, the creation and/or composition of an image. (The Photographer's Job, not the equipment)
    The photographer's job to find something that transmits emotions, share a message, procreate thoughts, etc etc, compose it, frame it, prepare it, visualize it.
  • The Photographic Image quality, talking here about gradient densities, tone color range, retention of texture, low pixelation or noise, the qualities that matter for the best image physical characteristics
The Photographer's job is to be involved in every aspect of his shoot, (unless you are a journalist, which I'm not and know nothing about)
Each of the lights, reflections, shadows, lens angles and distortion, the field depth, the subject, hair, makeup, clothing, posing, background, etc, etc. And of course, the choice of the medium that feels more adequate for the specific jobs.
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Anders_HK

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Re: Skintones: Aptus 22 / D700 / Film Kodak - Fuji / (P40+) (P45) (P45+)
« Reply #24 on: September 23, 2012, 05:49:49 pm »

@ Ryu & @ Fred,

Really really nice work posted by both of you in above.  :)

Also as an advanced amateur colors are to me very important. Yet this does not mere relate to skin tones. I gave up on Nikon after the D200, which I unlike many at time thought was crap in part due to colors. I loved Velvia 50 for landscapes and one reason was the pleasing colors. That is precise what I feel it is about, pleasing colors and not mere skin tones, already as a departure point when starting off to work in post on RAW.

While I did not shoot Aptus 22 my prior back was Aptus 65 and I believe they are not far apart in colors. Leaf do tend to be more film like than P1 and the files feel more graphic (in part due to the Dalsa sensors). Colors in Aptus 65 were really good for portraiture but there was something lagging to my eye for landscapes, both in colors and in enabling the recreation of light in the image. Updating to an 80MP Leaf back a bit over a year ago, I experience it over the Aptus 65 to have significant improved colors. They are more correct as departure point but also have to my eye very pleasing rendering. It made me finally drop shooting film and Velvia 50. I am not saying my current Leaf files are like Velvia, yet somehow they bring me the same sensation and satisfaction in photography. The 80MP Leaf has same Dalsa sensor as IQ180 but different implementation by Leaf. From what I was told the color filters on the sensor are improved compared to prior Leafs. Compared to Aptus 65 the 80MP Leaf have more colors, there are finer steps in gradation of tones of colors, a broader DR, and improved shadows. Important I now find that I can very well recreate a sensation of light in the images, by creating a transition into highlights and a shoulder similar to "film" by using curves. The more pixels help in all these, similar to on a 6x7 or larger MF film file, but I also attempt to work the files a tad on terms of a painter to create a sensation of color and light for the eye and leading the eye in an image. Capture One Pro is all I use. Attached are a couple of sample images shot using the 80MP Leaf. For skin tones, adjusting/correcting skin tones and select other color range edits, the color editor in Capture One Pro is downright superb and helps correct with simplicity.

Regarding a camera itself, it is a tool and if it is a good tool it lends us to capture and make good images. The D800 is perhaps the best image quality DSLR so far but by its nature of a DSLR invites a different approach than a medium format camera. I do rather relate to what Ryu writes of his RZ, since a camera is tad as a painters brush or as the violin of a master violinist. It is a thrill using a tool that feels intended for a master because it pushes to improve and to create in a different manner. Mine is Rolleiflex Hy6 with WLF and it aid me in visualize an image when shooting, and lends to achieve better images in portraiture than I have ever prior made. Importantly it lends to focus on the image and good capture.

Something more about D800 vs. the Leaf, the Aptus 75 (and current 33MP Leaf) is an older sensor and thus does not feel complete fair in comparison to D800. Obvious also Leaf has improved on sensors and technology. Leaf is also not mass produced same way as a DSLR and should thus have more precise tuned colors than a DSLR. The DR of D800 may appear to be better than it is because of the noise reduction in camera. In that context it is literally amazing how much you can push around a Leaf 80MP file and retrieve shadows in post! My sample file with the window had a very broad DR and was one shot.


Best regards,
Anders

P.S. @ Fred, b.t.w. both your graphs in above appear to be the same. I think you left out the DR comparison.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2012, 06:58:46 pm by Anders_HK »
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HarperPhotos

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Re: Skintones: Aptus 22 / D700 / Film Kodak - Fuji / (P40+) (P45) (P45+)
« Reply #25 on: September 23, 2012, 07:48:37 pm »

Hi Ryu,

These where the adjustments I did to your Nikon image.

Cheers

Simon
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EricWHiss

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Re: Skintones: Aptus 22 / D700 / Film Kodak - Fuji / (P40+) (P45) (P45+)
« Reply #26 on: September 23, 2012, 08:13:46 pm »

I keep having a hard time getting the skin tones right... hmm... but I don't think it has anything to do with the camera!  :D

« Last Edit: September 23, 2012, 08:15:21 pm by EricWHiss »
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EricWHiss

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Re: Skintones: Aptus 22 / D700 / Film Kodak - Fuji / (P40+) (P45) (P45+)
« Reply #27 on: September 23, 2012, 08:20:25 pm »

Thank you so much EricWHiss!

You like the Portra because of the landscape? Here are a few more from that pirate shoot.

I hope you enjoy them.

Ryu 8)

Ryu,
Yes, I did thanks for the extra images.   I didn't mean to say I don't like the Aptus / RZ files too.   I shoot with an Aptus back (AFi-ii 12) and also an RZ with mostly film.  I like film and still shoot a lot of it. Mostly black and white, though. 
Eric
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RyuuzakiJulio

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Re: Skintones: Aptus 22 / D700 / Film Kodak - Fuji / (P40+) (P45) (P45+)
« Reply #28 on: September 23, 2012, 09:10:36 pm »

I keep having a hard time getting the skin tones right... hmm... but I don't think it has anything to do with the camera!  :D

Was the wallpaper white on that image? Cuz it looks a bit on the warm side. That would saturate red her skin tones as you can see in her nails and non painted body parts. Also her specular highlights lost all the tones, is a blown out colorless white. That on a face kills me. I like to see the skin color and not a blown out white on forehead or nose, you know? What camera was that you use for that photograph? Maybe you lost the tones on the retouching workflow?

Ryu 8)
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EricWHiss

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Re: Skintones: Aptus 22 / D700 / Film Kodak - Fuji / (P40+) (P45) (P45+)
« Reply #29 on: September 23, 2012, 09:21:13 pm »

No the paper was colored - forget the name but maybe "Bone." but its got a warm yellow - definitely not white.    I'm was making a joke ...  I really wasn't asking for help with colors.  This was from an art project of mine. She has a metalic skin coating....
« Last Edit: September 23, 2012, 09:24:50 pm by EricWHiss »
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RyuuzakiJulio

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Re: Skintones: Aptus 22 / D700 / Film Kodak - Fuji / (P40+) (P45) (P45+)
« Reply #30 on: September 23, 2012, 09:23:56 pm »

Ryu,
Yes, I did thanks for the extra images.   I didn't mean to say I don't like the Aptus / RZ files too.   I shoot with an Aptus back (AFi-ii 12) and also an RZ with mostly film.  I like film and still shoot a lot of it. Mostly black and white, though. 
Eric


I love your black and whites Eric! Specially the body-scapes. I been meaning to shoot body-scapes but I haven't had the chance.
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RyuuzakiJulio

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Re: Skintones: Aptus 22 / D700 / Film Kodak - Fuji / (P40+) (P45) (P45+)
« Reply #31 on: September 23, 2012, 09:25:29 pm »

No the paper was colored - forget the name bone.  I'm was making a joke ...  I don't need any help with colors.  This was from an art project of mine. She has a metalic skin coating....


I kinda was thinking it was a joke =D I didn't mean to offer help with the tones. Just speculating what happened to it.
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EricWHiss

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Re: Skintones: Aptus 22 / D700 / Film Kodak - Fuji / (P40+) (P45) (P45+)
« Reply #32 on: September 23, 2012, 09:32:23 pm »

Thanks Ryu!




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RyuuzakiJulio

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Re: Skintones: Aptus 22 / D700 / Film Kodak - Fuji / (P40+) (P45) (P45+)
« Reply #33 on: September 23, 2012, 09:33:52 pm »

@Anders_HK
You write so well. And you have a Credo 80Mpx wow, I'm a total jelly right now. I haven't even seen one of those in person. :)
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RyuuzakiJulio

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Re: Skintones: Aptus 22 / D700 / Film Kodak - Fuji / (P40+) (P45) (P45+)
« Reply #34 on: September 23, 2012, 09:36:19 pm »

Hi Ryu,

These where the adjustments I did to your Nikon image.

Cheers

Simon

I kinda was wondering if you passed though portraiture. I havent used that plugin since I got the back. But it did saved me time on the D700. But trying to keep the original info I tend to avoid it.
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Anders_HK

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Re: Skintones: Aptus 22 / D700 / Film Kodak - Fuji / (P40+) (P45) (P45+)
« Reply #35 on: September 23, 2012, 11:09:47 pm »

@Anders_HK
You write so well. And you have a Credo 80Mpx wow, I'm a total jelly right now. I haven't even seen one of those in person. :)

It is AFi-II 12, same internals and display as Aptus-II 12 but rotating sensor and tilt display in different case especially for Hy6 camera. Dont be jelly, I should because you do photography fun as profession!!!  ;D You are also very good at it which I much respect.

Best regards
Anders
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FredBGG

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Re: Skintones: Aptus 22 / D700 / Film Kodak - Fuji / (P40+) (P45) (P45+)
« Reply #36 on: September 24, 2012, 12:22:48 am »

I think you should take a look at the D800 for image quality. While I had tested several Nikion
cameras I did not feel either compelled to get one as I had several Canons or did I feel that they could
replace my MF cameras.

The D800 sensor was a different story.

Here are a couple of graphs that illustrate the differences.

First color sensitivity:



As you can see here the Leaf has an advantage over the d700 at low ISO.
It's quite clear and confirms what you may be seeing.
However it is also clear that the d800 has an advantage over both the D700 and Leaf.

The difference is even more dramatic if we look at dynamic range.



Again we see that the leaf has a slight advantage over the d700. Again confirming what you are seeing.
Again it is very clear that the D800 has a large advantage over the leaf and d700.

Now all that said I think it's important to say that the Leaf Aptus 22 and Leaf Aptus 75s are
great backs and at their time were quite something and still fine tools to use today, but the
whole skin tone supremacy thing is a thing of the past.

There is still a color advantage with MFD if you go with the IQ180, but is it only the case if you can accept very low ISO
performance that is lower that the rated settings. You will still get better shadow detail with a D800.



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EricWHiss

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Re: Skintones: Aptus 22 / D700 / Film Kodak - Fuji / (P40+) (P45) (P45+)
« Reply #37 on: September 24, 2012, 02:39:23 am »

I'm not so sure you can trust the DXO data for very small or subtle color changes - though it may be accurate if one shoots color charts like they did in their testing its probably not correct for skin.  Let me see if i can share crops of skin from my studio tests to show you what i am seeing.     I've also done my own tests on DR between d800 and aptus 12 using Imatest and aptus 12 has a half stop more DR. 
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bohngy

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Re: Skintones: Aptus 22 / D700 / Film Kodak - Fuji / (P40+) (P45) (P45+)
« Reply #38 on: September 24, 2012, 03:44:38 am »

y'see what I would like to know is this: Is there a global colour correction that can be consistently performed in post to gain consistently good skin tones (with skintones being the primary focus) with a DSLR? What are the RGB numbers or relative balance that give the tones that look so pleasing and organic?

I know it's not as simple as writing an action, but I've never known what RGB numbers I should be aiming for. It should be theoretically possible to get every tone out of any digital camera... assuming it's within gamut!
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UlfKrentz

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Re: Skintones: Aptus 22 / D700 / Film Kodak - Fuji / (P40+) (P45) (P45+)
« Reply #39 on: September 24, 2012, 03:55:45 am »

@Anders_HK
You write so well. And you have a Credo 80Mpx wow, I'm a total jelly right now. I haven't even seen one of those in person. :)

Ryu,

no need to be jelly :-) the AII-12 will probably be too slow for you shooting fashion. You may look after a 75S / AII-7 or a AII-10 tough. They are all faster than the 22 and I find the extra resolution a huge plus. And yes, I agree and found the Aptus series digital backs have the most pleasing skin tones (although covered with makeup).

Cheers

Ulf
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