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Author Topic: Who of you use both MFDB and D800?  (Read 52344 times)

EricWHiss

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Re: Who of you use both MFDB and D800?
« Reply #140 on: September 26, 2012, 11:39:10 AM »

Fred,
Got any un-retouched images taken with the d800? I would really like to see what you are talking about.
Eric

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lowep

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Re: Who of you use both MFDB and D800?
« Reply #141 on: September 26, 2012, 11:54:54 AM »

I think this discussion turned in to something else then people explaining why they still have or dont have their medium format camera in their bag. I dont mind, but i think people are kind of missing the point.

hey emilmedia looks like your thread has gone viral  :o
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Doug Peterson

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Re: Who of you use both MFDB and D800?
« Reply #142 on: September 26, 2012, 12:07:24 PM »

The live view button. It's right there on the back of the camera.

A good work around, for many people probably it works perfectly for this purpose. But some shooters (specifically me personally) don't want the LCD lighting up in order to access MUP.

An example, when in a dark church for a wedding, if I'm line of sight of a guest I prefer not to use flash and I prefer not to have the LCD come on (either to select the MUP option or to use live view for this function). I feel the same way when I'm shooting a morning landscape image and trying to find my zen - the LCD popping on is kind of a mood killer. That of course is highly personal. Remember I prefer landscape shooting with a camera that has zero electronics and which you have to recock the shutter after each shot, so clearly my personal preferences are not going to be universal. I'm sure the requirement of the LCD coming on in order to access MUP is of no concern to the majority of users.

Best modern MF MUP implementation (based on my personal preferences) of the current cameras is the Hassy H (whether with Phase, Leaf, or Hassy back). It's a dedicated hard button with no other function/side-effect which is in reach of a usable finger when held in a normal comfortable position. Second best implementation I'd give to the DF (it's a drive mode like on nikon) since MUP+self-timer means you only have to push the shutter release (no special button required) once and the camera will put the mirror up and take the picture after the selected delay (which is nearly always why I am using MUP anyway).

I don't remember the Hy6 implementation.

EricWHiss

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Re: Who of you use both MFDB and D800?
« Reply #143 on: September 26, 2012, 12:20:06 PM »


I don't remember the Hy6 implementation.

The Hy6 has a dedicated mirror up button on the grip, reachable by your thumb.  Quite convenient, and the best implementation I have ever seen.  One press and it stays up for as many frames as you like then one more press and it goes down.  Because the Hy6 mirror is so well damped, I don't use it much.  And that's another reason why although I have both DSLR and MFDB, I prefer to use my AFi-ii 12.

They also have an ultra quick release set-up in conjunction with the mirror up that allows for very quick reactions that's great for certain work.  I think its 2 milliseconds.
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Hulyss

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Re: Who of you use both MFDB and D800?
« Reply #144 on: September 26, 2012, 03:12:20 PM »

I think this discussion turned in to something else then people explaining why they still have or dont have their medium format camera in their bag. I dont mind, but i think people are kind of missing the point.

hey emilmedia looks like your thread has gone viral  :o

If it stay not too viral, it's ok ;)
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MrSmith

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Re: Who of you use both MFDB and D800?
« Reply #145 on: September 26, 2012, 04:39:23 PM »



Best modern MF MUP implementation (based on my personal preferences) of the current cameras is the Hassy H (whether with Phase, Leaf, or Hassy back). It's a dedicated hard button with no other function/side-effect which is in reach of a usable finger when held in a normal comfortable position.

Dont think I have ever handheld a camera and used mirror up, that's time to reach for the tripod.
 you obviously have steadier hands than me.

But as you say everyone's different
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Doug Peterson

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Re: Who of you use both MFDB and D800?
« Reply #146 on: September 26, 2012, 06:52:01 PM »

Dont think I have ever handheld a camera and used mirror up, that's time to reach for the tripod.
 you obviously have steadier hands than me.

But as you say everyone's different

Walk up the isle during a wedding
Crouch with butt on ground and one knee up
balance camera on knee - gains several stops (not as much as tripod, but more than a monopod)
focus/compose
MUP
capture
Walk back down the isle

Obviously depends on the wedding if this is appropriate/viable (or even useful - there has to be an interesting angle and lighting for it).

The goal idea is NOT to be (overly) disruptive to the viewing experience of the guests so if the church is especially dim having your bright LCD pop on and show a real time video feed is definitely (IMO) counter to that goal. As would be a tripod. As would be flash.

MrSmith

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Re: Who of you use both MFDB and D800?
« Reply #147 on: September 26, 2012, 07:00:39 PM »

I tend to leave the cameras at home for weddings, I can't hold a glass in one hand, a bottle in the other and work a camera ;D
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FredBGG

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Re: Who of you use both MFDB and D800?
« Reply #148 on: September 27, 2012, 12:11:13 AM »

Those 35mm skin tones look complete crap compared to a Leaf!!!! What camera is that???

Attaching a 4.7 MP crop from my Leaf AFi-II 12 80MP back.

"look like complete crap"... how diplomatic of you... not to mention rather rude...

Rather than just bark back like that... how about explaining why you think the skin tones in your image form the Leaf 80MP is better.

Here is my opinion and I'll keep it more pleasant..

35mm


Leaf 80MP


IMO there is more detail and gradations in the skin in the 35mm image I posted. I also find the skin looks more natural and has more depth

The leaf 80MP image you posted has areas with much detail and color tone loss especially parts of the fingers. There is an ashy look at the sides of the mouth.
The transition between the darker area under the eyes and the skin between the cheekbones and nose is harsh.

That said the IQ180 produces state of the art skin tones and I'm guessing the Leaf back is just as good.

There is a great example here:

http://www.phaseone.com/en/Downloads/Sample-Images/Sample-images.aspx

There is a very nice straight forward portrait of a young girl. It shows what the IQ180 can do.

If someone is looking for wonderful skin tones both high end MFD and high end 35mm digital.. namely the D800 and D600 (with the Canon 1d x right behind them but lower res) are just what you need.


 
« Last Edit: September 27, 2012, 12:37:01 AM by FredBGG »
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Anders_HK

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Re: Who of you use both MFDB and D800?
« Reply #149 on: September 27, 2012, 11:15:00 AM »

Purpose with the small crop was not to display the skin tones, or I would (obvious) better have made the crop of a piece of skin instead... Rather it was to show that - per my impression - in such tiny crop the image after processing is humongos different to those from dslr.. It really stands out pleasingly (sorry my preference is cute asian look compared to freckles).

Sorry, not meant to be rude, but I am being honest and do think the skin tones in your post look like crap in comparison to what I get from MFDB. There is lack in gradation of tones. There is lack of details. Yet that could very naturally also be your processing. As is obvious per your readout of mine... I processed it that way because was pleased with the look of the picture.

Look at the eyes in mine, and it is mere a tiny crop...  ;)

Now... your film images are super good. Any similar level of photos from you using MFDB ???



« Last Edit: September 27, 2012, 11:25:48 AM by Anders_HK »
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Anders_HK

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Re: Who of you use both MFDB and D800?
« Reply #150 on: September 27, 2012, 11:17:56 AM »

@ Fred,

It really appears you not at all comprehend MFDB, yet you go through all this effort to argue DSLR is better. It is fine to prefer one or the other, but begs if you have sour grapes of an experience or something? Perhapse you can share of it?

The only problem I encountered with Medium format digital was with lack of design and implementation of ZD, but even that one under certain conditions brought me image quality that made my jaws drop, something I not see with DSLR. Come on, Leaf through a good dealer is stellar. I have not trief calling my gent at night yet but I have a feeling he would answer. Look at their project manager Yair who is all over net and providing email and other support to all users, and dealers like Capture Integration, Digital Transitions etc who are online here and even helping customers outside their market. Support and sales for DSLR are compkete junk in comparison.

My dealer in Hong Kong even gives help outside warranty, and helped narrow and test focus problem with Mamiya sytem I did not even purchade from them. Want to figure out why I upgraded??

And no I am not trying justify the $£ I spent, rather important for me in spending that much of my private hard earned cash was I knew Leaf would deliver quality for my passion photography, thanks to Gavin in HK and his team, and Yair. I have not regretted it, though I sure could use thst $ at very current. I am thrilled of what my system is capable to deliver.

Perhaps you would share your real story, because your writing in no way seem correspond to others experiences with medium format digital, nor to your stellar work with film. Or do you have some of similar to your film work stellar work with MFDB for us to see???

In all respect.

Best regards,
Anders
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FredBGG

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Re: Who of you use both MFDB and D800?
« Reply #151 on: September 27, 2012, 11:24:59 AM »

The file I posted is a 100% magnification too.
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Anders_HK

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Re: Who of you use both MFDB and D800?
« Reply #152 on: September 27, 2012, 11:32:42 AM »

If someone is looking for wonderful skin tones both high end MFD and high end 35mm digital.. namely the D800 and D600 (with the Canon 1d x right behind them but lower res) are just what you need.

I thought we read that this gent you linked concluded different ???

http://www.photigy.com/nikon-d800e-test-review-vs-hasselblad-h4d40-35mm-against-medium-format/

He upgraded his Hassy instead of going with D800 E
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Who of you use both MFDB and D800?
« Reply #153 on: September 27, 2012, 02:42:16 PM »

Hi,

The actaul conclusion is:
"Conclusion
I was pleased to see the performance of Nikon D800E. Despite the huge difference in a price, D800E was able to deliver the quality comparable to 5+ times more expensive Hasselblad. Great shadow and highlight recovery was actually a big surprise for me, considering 14 Bit small sensor vs 16 bit in Hassy (more bit depth means more colors and wider dynamic range).

Also, we need to keep in mind that it was not a true sensor-to-sensor performance test, as the glass was playing a big part of the resolution and details quality of the shots. Nikon had cheap, and most likely it would deliver even better sharpness and details if Iíd use Carl Zeiss 100mm f/2 Makro-Planar (or similar older Zeiss) lens for Nikon. 
Also, I was using F16 and F11, which is quite  tough for the lens, especially for Nikonís. Yes, it would give me a better resolution at F6 or F8, but I rarely use such wide open aperture in my studio work, and this is why Iíve used F16 in the test: to see the real-life performance, not the best possible.

Well done Nikon! Cameras like D800 will shake medium format market, and I hope it will drop their pricing even more.

And what about Hasselblad? It is still a choice of hi-end professionals who can spend 5x more time more money to get that last 10% of quality for their images. Ferrari is in business, as well as Subaru, and both are pretty fast and enjoyable cars to drive, isnít it? 
My personal decision is to stay with Hasselblad and replace H1 P25+ with H3D39 or similar MF camera. Like Iíve mentioned before, I need digital back to be deatachable and mountable on any other rig such as technical camera. Plus, I hate to clean 35mm DSLR sensors, and every time I swipe dust off from my P25+ Phase One digital back i smile: it is so easy!:-)

Hi-res original TIFF and JPEG files (in case you decide to play with them  yourself) are available for download absolutely free, you just need to sign-up for our newsletter.  To sign-up, use the top form on the right sidebar, and link to our special downloads page will be sent to you."

I thought we read that this gent you linked concluded different ???

http://www.photigy.com/nikon-d800e-test-review-vs-hasselblad-h4d40-35mm-against-medium-format/

He upgraded his Hassy instead of going with D800 E

Hulyss

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Re: Who of you use both MFDB and D800?
« Reply #154 on: September 27, 2012, 03:03:36 PM »

Pardon my trolliness  ;D

SIGMA POWER !!





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EricWHiss

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Re: Who of you use both MFDB and D800?
« Reply #155 on: September 27, 2012, 07:22:10 PM »

Hulyss,
No intrusion at all. This thread has been all over the place anyhow! I do think the DP2M is a neat little camera with a great lens.  I may pick one up.

Here's a shot I had with fingers in it, that I took when I had the phase DF and aptus 12.   Lenses on my current camera AFi-ii 12 seem to be a bit sharper, but have a look.

Eric
« Last Edit: September 27, 2012, 07:26:51 PM by EricWHiss »
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Who of you use both MFDB and D800?
« Reply #156 on: September 28, 2012, 12:15:15 AM »

Here's a shot I had with fingers in it, that I took when I had the phase DF and aptus 12.   Lenses on my current camera AFi-ii 12 seem to be a bit sharper, but have a look.

The Sigma seems sharper on a pixel basis.  ;)

Cheers,
Bernard
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A few images online here!

FredBGG

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Re: Who of you use both MFDB and D800?
« Reply #157 on: September 28, 2012, 01:31:44 AM »

Pardon my trolliness  ;D

SIGMA POWER !!







Are those crops from the same shot?

Looks quite amazingly natural in the crops.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2012, 02:54:02 AM by FredBGG »
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EricWHiss

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Re: Who of you use both MFDB and D800?
« Reply #159 on: September 28, 2012, 02:20:14 AM »

The Sigma seems sharper on a pixel basis.  ;)

Cheers,
Bernard


That's a possibility, but probably only cause the mamiya DF body and mirror shake issues or the 80mm lens. Oh yeah and the diffraction at f/16 - not sure if you can see the EXIF, but clearly the Sigma was shot at a wider aperture.  The aptus 12 is sharpest at f/8.   Wait until I post something with AFi and Rollei schneider 90mm. I just wanted to post something with finger prints  ;)     Still I think the detail the Aptus 12 can capture is incredible!  
« Last Edit: September 28, 2012, 02:42:10 AM by EricWHiss »
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