Hasselblad Lunar

[PeteZ28]

I haven't any misconceptions that this product will sell in my market. If anything, our sales associates will tell customers who are looking at the Sony, " This camera is so good that Hasselblad rebranded it as one of their own". This customer will then buy the Sony.

Different market. Different demographic.

Denny

For the sake of Hasselblad, and for dealers like yourself, I hope you are right. But I still feel even if this product is successful it comes with a great cost. Already there are many a current Hasselblad owner beginning to question the future of the company. That is NOT good for a company that is trying to peddle $30,000+ products! If "success" of the Lunar product comes a the cost of H series sales, I'm not sure this benefits anyone in the industry, including photographers. I understand that in todays high tech marketplace it makes sense to partner up with a high tech company. I'm beginning to become highly curious if the Lunar is more a product of Hasselblad or if it's Hasselblad paying the piper for Sony technology. I'm hoping the latter, as the upshot for MF shooters having access to Sony R&D could be tremendous.

[FredBGG]

When this is what Hasselblad comes up with I think that it is quite clear that they do not develop cameras and have not for quite a long time.

Today Hasselblad is putting an ugly skin on someone else.s camera.

They then lie about it with comments like.. "just because we buy components from Sony"

Hasselblad has been very circumvent and unclear about their products and their origins since the XPan.

Never clear or consistent about the design and production of the H.

The current CEO's previous job was about making Zeiss stuff and licencing the brand to Japanese manufacturers.

I wonder just how much else has to come out for people to realize that for many years Hasselblad has been more about the shell and the brand with others making
the gear or most of it.

A friend of mine... a true photography enthusiast with deep pockets and deep culture in gear told me he saw H bodies on a production line at Fuji in Japan when he visited the plant.

Just the total abandonment of the historic square format should have been clear enough.

I think the cat is out of the bag now that they have gone too far...

[FredBGG]

Hasselblad it seems preferred to spend it's money on fancy architecture
for their factory rather than invest the moeny towards the product.

Here is the factory empty after Hasselblad when they had to move to a more conventional where house.

http://www.jornmark.se/places_intro.aspx?placeid=39&lang=eng

It makes you wonder who was at the wheel???

[Anders_HK]

I don't believe Hasselblad will be marketing this towards the average shooter. This camera is most likely geared towards the person wishing to buy into the Hasselblad brand. The entire reason for the purchase is due to the brand. This individual probably isn't very technically proficient in digital capture and just likes to "take pictures".

The other end of the spectrum is the pro shooter on the coasts where perceived  image is important. One may call it a novelty item, a boutique purchase..whatever. Hasselblad is trying to capitalize on their brand and diversify.

Pardon for being straight, do they really believe that target group of people are so stupid as to be happy to/after buy a cosmetic of a cheapish Sony for so much money??? Or to put it more precise, do they really dare to insult a target group as to attempt sell them such an ignorant rip off product???

Thereafter, what will be left of the Hasselblad name in reputation?

Hasselblad introduced another item that we seem to be overlooking…the H5D. This body has an improved TrueFocus engine, more robust curtain screen, longer battery life, 24mm lens and an awesome macro converter that I got to play with today.

The H5D follows along incremental product replacement typical of Japanese products (Fuji??), while preceded by exaggerated PR campaign of that it was something bigger. Notably there was nothing revolutionary new and no new digital back from Hassy... which makes one wonder...

Frankly, if we judge MFD market based on Kina 2012, we have seems Hassy taking route of Kodak, Phase One torturing their users with yet another upgrade of Mamiya 645 AF camera and announcing some toy styled lenses, Leica S following along Japanese with an incremental product replacement, while Rolleiflex was the only one offering a low cost upgrade for existing users to their very excellent body and already top notch lenses with professional look (all made in Europe/Germany)... ah, and Schneider announcing very professional looking lenses for high resolution DSLRs, now that should be a danger to MFD industry if someone made a DSLR that felt and acted as medium format camera...

Just my take of it. I shoot Hy6 and 80MP Leaf back + Shen Hao 4x5

[Hulyss]

You forgot ALPA. ALPA came with new products and at least, will never loose his honour by doing such tragic things.

If Hasslebad was Japanese, the boss would commit Seppuku.

[Chairman Bill]

I notice that this thread is placed under Luminous Landscape Forum > Equipment & Techniques > Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography. It's where discussion of anything Hasselblad would logically go, until now. The once great Hasselblad is now reduced to producing tacky, tarted-up small-sensor Sony bodies, & touting them as Hassy cameras. It's sad.

Is there a forum section Luminous Landscape Forum > tacky, tarted-up small-sensor Sony bodies>, where this thread could be better placed? Maybe Michael could set one up & move this thread there? 

[Gigi]

Hasselblad it seems preferred to spend it's money on fancy architecture
for their factory rather than invest the moeny towards the product.

Here is the factory empty after Hasselblad when they had to move to a more conventional where house.

[url]http://www.jornmark.se/places_intro.aspx?placeid=39&lang=eng[/img]

It makes you wonder who was at the wheel???

Nice building. Why/when did they move? Normally with a building this nice/fancy, if there are cost issues, it happens in the building stage. Moving out after its built is rare....

[FredBGG]

You forgot ALPA. ALPA came with new products and at least, will never loose his honour by doing such tragic things.

If Hasslebad was Japanese, the boss would commit Seppuku.

Actually I think that if the boss was from Japan he would not be so full of himself and think the name is big enough to
cover up this rubbish.

[design_freak]

If the CEO was Japanese, tradition would be in the first place. Secondly, he would not permit such a situation.

[Rob C]

Great idea.   I write from the Monaco Yacht Show.   Ever visited it?  There is a large well-heeled market for "prestige" products of all kinds, something Leica has addressed more effectively that Hasselblad to date.  Medium format digital is a tiny niche market, whereas a luxury product like this will sit well on the seat of a Bugatti or on board a yacht.  Just like some of the yachts I have been privileged to visit today.

Just looked at this thread and I'm not seeing disaster. What I see is the same thing as does Quentin: markets for such items exist in far larger numbers than one might believe. Leica is still going strong and seems to have problems making enough stuff, not in selling it.

Reverting to the boating world - the smaller boats are having a hard time getting made, but generally those builders who used to do smaller (if expensive) boats as well as larger have changed emphasis upmarket. Look at Sunseeker or Fairline and Riva - Riva's small boats are very expensive but, considered as luxury items, they still have a market where most others now aim at the over 65ft world.

In short, the rich are still usually rich, and it's the middle, the huge bunch of us that takes the hit. The lower lot never got anything, anyway, so it probably neither knows nor cares what Hassy or Leica might do.

If Hassy can make it work and make money, that's cool; nobody is forced to buy. It might look like a pig, but that's just opinion. What is it about five grand or over that upsets so many people so much that they feel obliged to knock such products?

Rob C

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... markets for such items exist in far larger numbers than one might believe. Leica is still going strong and seems to have problems making enough stuff, not in selling it...

But Rob, Leica is selling itself in a different, luxurious, package. Huge difference. Leica name (and value) recognition among general public is much better than Hasselblad, which is practically unknown outside photographers. Besides, most luxurious versions of Leica that I remember seing are actually rather good looking.

[FredBGG]

But Rob, Leica is selling itself in a different, luxurious, package. Huge difference. Leica name (and value) recognition among general public is much better than Hasselblad, which is practically unknown outside photographers. Besides, most luxurious versions of Leica that I remember seing are actually rather good looking.

I'll add to that.

Whoever you are... if you pick up a Leica it feels luxurious. Just pick up a Leica and focus the lens..... then pick up a NEX. The lenses feel like plastic.
Not a jab at Sony... Sony asks a fair price for the nifty little high IQ camera.

Also Leica cameras that are used by professionals are compact so they are often seen around the neck of people with deep pockets and
a passion for photography. Hasselblad H cameras while just a worthy IQ wise are not fun around the neck.

There is also a luxuray difference.... The Leica even not "pimped up" (not the best word, but you get what I mean).
Is already a luxury item. There are waiting lists for lenses pretty much all the time.

Then when Leica does do a special edition it tends to be with very high end designers that already sell very high level luxury items like Ermes.

They are limited editions and like most Leicas are hand made. I the case of the Hermes so it the bag, box and accessories.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAfSfnykXfo&feature=player_embedded

Notice how the video  has no hype voice over or glorifying music.

Ermes Bugatti



Ferrari didn't make a Hasselblad version of the Dino or anything "that way round".

Hasselblad had just become so conceited and full of themselves.

I think Ventizz stepped out of it's comfort zone or typical type of businesses with Hasselblad.

Only consumer product company in the portfolio.

Buisness and industrial clients are one thing.... consumer merchandising ... luxury or not is another thing.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

You beat me to it! I was about to post this:

The latest one I like is the Edition Hermes (just check those gentle curvy lines!)

[design_freak]

Hasselblad Lunar



VS

M9-P ‘Edition Hermès'

[hasselbladfan]

I saw the "Lunatic" at the Photokina friday and I hate it (like all the Hasselblad reps I spoke to).

But, if it allows Hasselblad to make more money to survive (in the tiny MF market) or to invest in better MF products, should we be so puritan.

It reminds me of the discussion between Porsche 911 fanatics when the Cayenne came to the market. In reality, the Cayenne saved Porsche (more than 50% of cars produced are now Cayennes) and allowed the 911 drivers to still have a car today.

Will this not be the same with Hasselblad in a couple of years?

[FredBGG]

No comparison. Not even close.

The Porsche Cayenne was developed for the American market where the SUV format is so popular.
Porsche entered the SUV segment and established itself as the high performance SUV.
It went on to win the Transsyberia rally.
They took it as far a 550 HP 4.8L twin turbo.

They Put a Porsche into an SUV. New product from the ground up.

Hasselblad is so full of itself that it thinks it can (let me correct that.. thought it could) sell a bastardized pimped out camera for 6 times the price because it's reputation is so high and mighty.

While I did use Hasselblads early in my photo career, I always found their holier than thou attitude annoying.

If Hasselblad had not taken the "gouge the photographer for what he used to pay for film" route and developed MF cameras with more functionality.

I think it is safe to say that they revealed their true nature when they dropped film support. IF they really had respect for their early heritage
they would have kept film compatibility on all their cameras. The H4X is evidence that it was not a big deal to do so. They did so to late
and with some "f@#k-you photographers you have to do some upgrade acrobatics if you want one" business model.

I would also say that you can blame the die hard fans too. Instead of giving Hasselblad a hard time forcing them to shape up...
they just kept on praising and admiring.

[FredBGG]

.........
But, if it allows Hasselblad to make more money to survive (in the tiny MF market) or to invest in better MF products, should we be so puritan.
.........

It's not about being puritans. It's about having more of an allegiance with photographer... our colleagues... and those wonderful wealthy people that have
helped keep the prices down and the numbers up of the fine tools we use.

Do you really think we should just bow our heads to the "church of Hasselblad" and see them rip people off with their newly acquired bad taste
and marketing BS.

But just look at this from a very simple practical level. Do you really think that a camera store is going to take a client with deep pockets and sell them this deceitful crap.
Can you imagine a person that buys a camera as a status symbol.... he or she then pulls it out a a dinner or something and a gear head will point out that its a $ 1,000 dollar
pimped out Sony. The status symbol will crumble and the client with deep pockets will be complaining with the store or taking his or her business elsewhere.

It simply isn't going to work.

If Hasselblad needed this to survive... well the end is going to come sooner.

[Rob C]

But Rob, Leica is selling itself in a different, luxurious, package. Huge difference. Leica name (and value) recognition among general public is much better than Hasselblad, which is practically unknown outside photographers. Besides, most luxurious versions of Leica that I remember seing are actually rather good looking.

Hi Slobodan

1. I'm not convinced at all that Leica is more well-known amongst the richer folks than is Hasselblad; that seems to me to be an assumption and nothing more. Because people here repeat it as a mantra doesn't necessarily lend it credibility outwith this forum.

2. Of course Leica's 'luxury' branding for consumer goods is more advanced: they have done little else for generations. It's always been a retro company, which was why I never bought a Leica when I was running the business and could easily afford it - I couldn't justify their slr or rangefinder as being superior to the equiment I already owned. In fact, a rangefinder was the last sort of camera suited to my work. Give Hassy the same time pushing smaller, relatively overpriced cameras, and I see no real reason why they should be less successful. To be blunt, I really am beginning to see what some people mean when they write about an anti-Hassy sentiment on this site; if you don't like the product, there's absolutely no compulsion to purchase - leave them in peace. Why muddy their waters and efforts?

I never found Hassy, as a company, to be difficult to work with and the cameras were exactly what I needed.

Rob C

[hasselbladfan]

Do you really think we should just bow our heads to the "church of Hasselblad" and see them rip people off with their newly acquired bad taste
and marketing BS.

If Hasselblad needed this to survive... well the end is going to come sooner.
[/quote]

Have a look at the price difference of the standard H4D40 with 80mm (18k) and the Ferrari edition (28k). besides the paint and the box, it is the same camera. Check the price of a Leica M9 and the Leica Hermes M9 ! If a number of rich clients are happy to spend this much extra (for the look / status symbol) why not ?

Hasselblad is run since a couple of years by a private equity firm and their aim is to double profit and sell it again in 5 years (to an investor / management / or another PE firm).

As long as they upgrade the MF from time to time and offer us new lenses like the 24mm, I am not going to complain anymore, despite the fact that I hate the Lunatic.

[Graham Mitchell]

It reminds me of the discussion between Porsche 911 fanatics when the Cayenne came to the market. In reality, the Cayenne saved Porsche (more than 50% of cars produced are now Cayennes) and allowed the 911 drivers to still have a car today.

That's not true. Porsche was making a healthy profit pre-Cayenne. What they chose to do was to grow and diversify. That's not the same thing.