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Author Topic: New to site and DMF... Just in time with H5D ! Help Please.  (Read 47821 times)

Doug Peterson

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Re: New to site and DMF... Just in time with H5D ! Help Please.
« Reply #180 on: October 15, 2012, 07:33:25 PM »

Hi Doug - how are you?
Hope things are ging well ...

Quite well, thanks. My move to New York has been very rewarding personally and professionally.

Sorry I didn't see you this year at Photokina - I assume you went; I had to man the fort back home. But next time...

Hope you're well!

tho_mas

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Re: New to site and DMF... Just in time with H5D ! Help Please.
« Reply #181 on: October 15, 2012, 07:51:29 PM »

Quite well, thanks. My move to New York has been very rewarding personally and professionally.
good to hear!

Sorry I didn't see you this year at Photokina - I assume you went; I had to man the fort back home. But next time...
also wasn't there. I was on production in Spain.
Yes... looking forward meeting you on the next Photokina!!

Quote
Hope you're well!
hmh... too much work. But basically everything is fine :-) Thanks!


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FredBGG

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Re: New to site and DMF... Just in time with H5D ! Help Please.
« Reply #182 on: October 15, 2012, 08:14:13 PM »

When the Russel campaign was shot there was no "Phase One Camera".

The YouTube video as linked in this thread was re-uploaded in 2010 when Phase One switched video-management systems to YouTube.  

Well well that's interesting especially in light of Phase One's description of the video on the youtube site:

"Phase One camera system: http://www.phaseone.com
Watch professional photographer James Russell working with the Phase One camera system on a photo shooting for Phase One."



This was written and uploaded after both the Phase One AF was available and the DF was introduced.... blacked out Contax logo.... no mention of Contax

That's miss leading in my book.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2012, 08:26:13 PM by FredBGG »
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Nick-T

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Re: New to site and DMF... Just in time with H5D ! Help Please.
« Reply #183 on: October 15, 2012, 08:19:58 PM »

The question is not "Does he use Phase?" because he does.. the question is what camera bag does he use?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UG7doq5Vshw&feature=youtube_gdata_player

tho_mas

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Re: New to site and DMF... Just in time with H5D ! Help Please.
« Reply #184 on: October 15, 2012, 08:26:13 PM »

Well well that's interesting especially in light of Phase One's description of the video on the youtube site
There is nothing "interesting"... unless you are a po-faced petty bourgeois.
Do yourself a favour and stop this debate. BC is honest ... always has been.

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FredBGG

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Re: New to site and DMF... Just in time with H5D ! Help Please.
« Reply #185 on: October 15, 2012, 08:30:45 PM »

There is nothing "interesting"... unless you are a po-faced petty bourgeois.
Do yourself a favour and stop this debate. BC is honest ... always has been.

Don't get me wrong BC from what I can see is BC is honest and a very good photographer.

I wonder if he noticed the description they used on the youtube page. It was uploaded and the description was made by PhaseOneDK.

They are effectively using the video of him as a testimonial for the Camera System in that description.

« Last Edit: October 15, 2012, 08:38:44 PM by FredBGG »
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tho_mas

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Re: New to site and DMF... Just in time with H5D ! Help Please.
« Reply #186 on: October 15, 2012, 08:38:42 PM »

They are effectively using the video of him as a testimonial for the camera system in that description.

who cares?
That's the nature (or at least one side) of advertisement...
That's the world (of communication) we live in... so what?!

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FredBGG

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Re: New to site and DMF... Just in time with H5D ! Help Please.
« Reply #187 on: October 15, 2012, 08:42:05 PM »

who cares?
That's the nature (or at least one side) of advertisement...
That's the world (of communication) we live in... so what?!



Who cares? maybe some of those people that bought the DF and found it flaky.
Plenty of people complain about it.

Regarding advertising..... there are a few rules to consider....  ;)
« Last Edit: October 15, 2012, 09:10:58 PM by FredBGG »
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tho_mas

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Re: New to site and DMF... Just in time with H5D ! Help Please.
« Reply #188 on: October 15, 2012, 08:46:03 PM »

Who cares? maybe some of those people that bought the DF and found it flaky.
Plenty of people complain about it.
First: BC has absolutely NOTHING to dos with this!
Secondly: who cares :-) Buy a Contax :-)
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: New to site and DMF... Just in time with H5D ! Help Please.
« Reply #189 on: October 15, 2012, 09:34:59 PM »

Hi,

The sample I posted on PBase really astonished me. When I looked at the stuff on screen there was an incredible advantage to the larger file, but on the print it was nil. I showed the prints to a friend who was working at a pro lab and he could not tell them apart.

I never said that the thing Joseph Holmes have seen were not relevant to DSLRs. This has been indicated by Diglloyd quite a few times. When the OP decided to go for Nikon I pointed out the need to test everything. Nikon is known to having had problems with one of the AF-sensors being off on the D800. Thom Hogan has discussed this at length. Calibration is done with an 50/1.4 lens and process takes an hour as far as I recall.

As I said, I think the problem is less with DSLRs, simply because they are built to work with f/1.4 lenses. An f/1.4 lens needs twice the precision that f/2.8 lens has. As Diglloyd has pointed out, hanging a DSLR from your shoulders with a 300/2.8 is probably not beneficial to alignment of sensor and lens.

The other factor making Joseph Holmes observations important is that many buyers would use pre owned or rental equipment. If you read Joseph Holmes articles you will find that about two thirds of the samples he had seen had issues. The indication was that Phase backs coming from the factory were probably OK. Several of the lenses were bad, also Schneider and Rodenstock lenses coming from the factory.

Lens Rentals writes much about lenses. It seems that there is a lot of variation in lenses but really bad lenses are few. One interesting observation is that they test all lenses before shipping. They used to have manual inspection but since perhaps a year they are using Imatest. They have observed that lemons do pass trough visual inspection but show up in Imatest.

Once I tested mirror vibration. I made a series of shots with:

- Camera on tripod using Mirror Lock UP (MLU) and no AntiShake (AS)
- Camera on tripod no MLU no AS
- Camera on tripod no MLU and AS
- Camera hand held, no MLU and AS

These shots were done with a 200/2.8 zoom at medium apertures with exposures between 1/15 and 1/125.

To my surprise all the shots were sharp! The tripod/MLU shots were not sharper than free hand shots. Then I measured my test shots with Imatest. Imatest clearly showed that I lost half the sharpness on the non MLU shots. After seeing the numbers I went back to the screen and had a second look. After knowing the numerical difference I could see the difference on screen! I don't recall the camera I used, but I guess that it was a Sony Alpha 700 at 12 MP. Not using MLU made that camera into a 3 MP (half resolution squared) camera and I missed that at actual pixels. The experiment made me critical about relying on the eyes and religious about MLU.

Best regards
Erik

difficult maybe... but not impossible for a trained eye, I think. In my experience the relation of image components to each other (color to color, gradation, sharpness, smoothness etc.) can be translated from real pixels viewed at 100% or 50% on screen to the respective print to some extend. Naturally a print looks different to a screen view... but if the processing chain is done right it's only the difference of 94 DPI (or whatever resolution of the screen) to 300 DPI (or 360 DPI or whatever resolution of the printer). Normally I can estimate how a capture (a digital file viewed on a screen that is) will look printed - at least this goes for my preferred printing paper in conjunction with the sharpening technique I prefer.
Anyway... a defocused MFD capture will always look like a super sized POS capture ... also in print. An accurately focused MFD capture makes the difference.
I do have the very same DB (P45) and when I saw Michael's capture made for that comparission I thought, okay, if this what you get from your P45, I'd prefer the G10. Because it's easier to use. But the capture is simply nowhere near of what a P45 is capable of.

With regard to the discussion in this thread... I've looked at some D800e RAW files available on the web and actually I am not impressed with regard to sharpness/details or so. I get that from my P45 all the time, even with my not so great lenses. I'd say the D800e is somehere in between my P21+ and my P45. But what really impresses me, however, is that you can push the D800e files at base ISO by 2, even 3 stops in the shadows without even having to think about applying any (luminance-) noise reduction. That is more or less impossible with my P45. Okay, I am comparing a 2005 DB to a 2012 DSLR. But still ... the D800e files I've seen look extremely good when pushed hard in post.
Then again... other than DR... they do not look nearly as nice (subjective perception !!! ) as the P45 captures with my lenses (Contax Zeiss, Digitars, Digarons). They look a bit more washed out (soft/dull) in image areas where I think the P45 would draw finer details/color differentiation.  I am only talking about what I am seeing in the files. I really don't care whether or not a D800 or a Sony RX100 outperforms my P45 - I really don't care at all!
(and BTW... as a side note... I've also seen D800e captures suffering either from a tilted sensor or a misaligned lense ... so welcome to the world of high res imaging and warm greetings to J. Holmes ;-) ... ).



FredBGG

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Re: New to site and DMF... Just in time with H5D ! Help Please.
« Reply #190 on: October 15, 2012, 11:38:06 PM »

The other factor making Joseph Holmes observations important is that many buyers would use pre owned or rental equipment. If you read Joseph Holmes articles you will find that about two thirds of the samples he had seen had issues. The indication was that Phase backs coming from the factory were probably OK. Several of the lenses were bad, also Schneider and Rodenstock lenses coming from the factory.

Interesting point.

Reminds me of a post I made a while ago about a so called interdependent lens test on the Mamiya USA website.
Hasselblad vs Mamiya lenses..... so nothing to do with MF vs35mm DSLR.

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1054836

The Hasselblad lenses were randomly picked out from a rental house while the Mamiya lenses came of the shelf at Mamiya USA. ::)
« Last Edit: October 16, 2012, 12:52:46 AM by FredBGG »
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: New to site and DMF... Just in time with H5D ! Help Please.
« Reply #191 on: October 16, 2012, 12:57:08 AM »

Hi,

I actually don't think that sample variations are to bad. Lens rentals does a lot of lens test as they test all outgoing lenses. There is significant sample variation but true lemons are rare. Zeiss lenses also seem to have less sample variation than Canon and Nikon.

So I don't think that Mamiya was cheating to much. I had little views on the test, except the test being done at full aperture with a projector. I think that is a standard method of assembly check out for lenses and a good method to see if the lenses are within tolerances, but lenses are mostly not used at full aperture. So in a sense the tests were not relevant.

On the other hand, if we look at the old photodo tests Mamiya lenses clearly outperformed Hasselblad's lenses according to the Photodo criteria for grading. One interesting aspect of those tests was that they were done at the Hasselblad factory by Hasselblad personnel using Hasselblad's MTF equipment. Especially Mamiya 7 was excellent.

Now, a single set of MTF data does not make for a complete description of a lens. It is a good indication of sharpness. Lens designers use MTF extensively. One of the issues with MTF that the curves say little about out of focus images, what we call bokeh. Lens designers produce large amount of MTF data with different focus.

Another observation is that MTF is not always comparable. Some MTF data is based on white light and another set may be based on monochrome light. Some MTF data is coming from lens design calculations and some are just invented by Sony's marketing department.

The Photodo tests were made in white light, and they are consistent with data published by Zeiss and Hasselblad.

I had a discussion on another thread with Stefan Steib, the man behind Hartblei in Germany. Hartblei uses Zeiss lenses in their TS designs. One of the lenses they use is the Zeiss 120/4. According to both Photodo and Hasselblad data that lens has not very high MTF. Diglloyd tested that lens on a Nikon D3X and found that it needed to be stopped down to f/11 but the image was really lovely, the only lens that he considered to be better was the 100/2 Macro Planar, another Zeiss design.

Now a lens that needs to be stopped down to f/11 will never be as sharp as one that peaks at f/5.6. A lens diffraction limited at f/5.6 is essentially twice as good as one that peaks at f/11 (Yes, this is oversimplification!). Why? Because diffraction, which limits a diffraction limited lens, is half as much at f/5.6 than at f/11. But there are other factors than sharpness playing a role. A third factor is that sharpening plays a major role in the digital work flow. A lens that sharpens well may be preferable to a lens that is inherently sharp but does not respond well to sharpening. This is just a guess, but it is feasible. I assume that sharpening assumes that PSF (Point Spread Function) is either a disc or a gaussian. A lens that renders a point as a disc or gaussian would respond better to sharpening than one that renders a point as a small delta wing.

Lens designers can do little about diffraction. A very badly designed aperture may cause some extra diffraction, but diffraction is essentially a property of light and only affected by aperture.

Best regards
Erik


Interesting point.

Reminds me of a post I made a while ago about a so called interdependent lens test on the Mamiya USA website.
Hasselblad vs Mamiya lenses..... so nothing to do with MF vs35mm DSLR.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&ved=0CDUQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fredmiranda.com%2Fforum%2Ftopic%2F1054836&ei=vs58UL2aIYfMigKG94DgDw&usg=AFQjCNELOqoKgaGfkuKiEj9kv3s-XhQcbg

The Hasselblad lenses were randomly picked out from a rental house while the Mamiya lenses came of the shelf at Mamiya USA. ::)
« Last Edit: October 16, 2012, 01:49:35 AM by ErikKaffehr »
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Anders_HK

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Re: New to site and DMF... Just in time with H5D ! Help Please.
« Reply #192 on: October 16, 2012, 05:20:20 AM »

"Phase One camera system: http://www.phaseone.com
Watch professional photographer James Russell working with the Phase One camera system on a photo shooting for Phase One."



This was written and uploaded after both the Phase One AF was available and the DF was introduced.... blacked out Contax logo.... no mention of Contax

The P45+ is mere a introductory framing into the video... Intelligent people look at what is in the video rather than whine   ;D

0:39 into the video shows clearly he uses P30+ back.

Because Contax is blacked out, it is not shown what camera he uses.
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Anders_HK

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Re: New to site and DMF... Just in time with H5D ! Help Please.
« Reply #193 on: October 16, 2012, 05:36:20 AM »

The question is not "Does he use Phase?" because he does.. the question is what camera bag does he use?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UG7doq5Vshw&feature=youtube_gdata_player



Notably the Fuji GX680 per Wikepedia weights around 4kg... Dang, that is a heavy studio camera to carry in mere shoulder bags...

Any reports of photographers purchasing these bags and filing law suit for back pains?

Personally I use Tenba PBP per recommendation ca. 2002 of a photographer on Nikoninans. Sure many said Tamrac and Lowepro, but this one gent said his Tenba was the best piece of photographic equipment he had used and had been with him on many international travels. I now witness the precise same, it is the best piece of photographic gear I use and has helped me carry gear with comfort and trips worldwide, including a round the world journey. I tested out high end Tamrac backpack in shop at time by test loading it, and what a difference, with Tenba I could carry much more weight and more in comfort. I used to have back pain when younger, but over ten years none due to carrying camera gear, thanks to my Tenba.  ;D

Look he does it on Vimeo as well --- It seems as false marketing.  ;D
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FredBGG

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Re: New to site and DMF... Just in time with H5D ! Help Please.
« Reply #194 on: October 16, 2012, 02:27:42 PM »

Notably the Fuji GX680 per Wikepedia weights around 4kg... Dang, that is a heavy studio camera to carry in mere shoulder bags...

Any reports of photographers purchasing these bags and filing law suit for back pains?

Personally I use Tenba PBP per recommendation ca. 2002 of a photographer on Nikoninans. Sure many said Tamrac and Lowepro, but this one gent said his Tenba was the best piece of photographic equipment he had used and had been with him on many international travels. I now witness the precise same, it is the best piece of photographic gear I use and has helped me carry gear with comfort and trips worldwide, including a round the world journey. I tested out high end Tamrac backpack in shop at time by test loading it, and what a difference, with Tenba I could carry much more weight and more in comfort. I used to have back pain when younger, but over ten years none due to carrying camera gear, thanks to my Tenba.  ;D

Look he does it on Vimeo as well --- It seems as false marketing.  ;D


What do you mean by he does it on vimeo???? You make it sound like I'm posting the video left right and center. For your information I'm not, it was posted by Tamrac.
Also I don't see why you are accusing me of false marketing. Exactly what claims am I making in the video? Seems to me that all I'm saying is that I happened to choose a Tamrac back in the day and had them for 10 years or so. I also say that if I go back to get another I would get a Tamrac. It's actually quite a logical choice because I have a few Tamracs and it's really handy to stay with the same ones because the inside dividers are more interchangeable than mixing brands.

Do I at any point in the video say that the Tamrac bags are superior to any thing else?.... NO.
Do I make medical claims? NO.
Did I make any claims that the Tamrac bag makes it easier to carry my Fuji's.... NO.
Did Tamrac pay me? No. However I did get a call a month or so later saying that they liked the video and asked me if I could use another bag.
I took up the offer and popped over to their show room in Chatsworth that's actually not far from my house in the Santa Monica mountains.
I have to say it was a real treat to spread my camera gear over the table and play with a bunch of bags..... sort of like a kid with wood blocks.
Well if you think that with that they bought me off your wrong..... While the free bag was a nice and both appreciated and welcomed gift it was about 1/4 of my rate in studio
for the extra time we took to do the video shots and interview.

Derek, the young still photographer and videographer that shot the video was very pleasant and it was a pleasure to facilitate his work.

What do I think about Tenba and Lowepro? I think they are excellent. Tamrac, Tenba and Lowepro.. all good stuff.

And for a full disclosure...

Oh and just in case it comes out in the future I also have an autographed tripod that was given to me by Lino Manfrotto as a souvenier after he invited me and
another photographer for a weekend to the mountains in Italy for some fine food and pick our brains and exchange ideas.

I was sponsored by Polaroid for many years... free 8x10 Polaroid film for any editorial I shot... and I shot many.
I did along with Donna Fashion magazine let polaroid use a photo I shot for the magazine for an ad in a pro photography magazine, in the same issue I was on the cover of.
If I recall correctly I made no technical claims in that add. Just my name and the photo I think.

I did a few lighting workshops (2 or 3) for Elinchrom and got a free flash tube from them when I broke one a few days after a demo.

let's see... did I miss anything??

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heinrichvoelkel

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Re: New to site and DMF... Just in time with H5D ! Help Please.
« Reply #195 on: October 16, 2012, 04:08:18 PM »

Anders HK and Fred, as much as I respect one and I'm bored by the other, you should keep your little fight to yourself or to PM.

The D800e is great, a P65 on a tech cam as well, no need to discuss choices of bags, or cameras.

Let good photographers make their decisions and thats it. I hope.
 
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FredBGG

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Re: New to site and DMF... Just in time with H5D ! Help Please.
« Reply #196 on: October 16, 2012, 04:22:30 PM »

Anders HK and Fred, as much as I respect one and I'm bored by the other, you should keep your little fight to yourself or to PM.

The D800e is great, a P65 on a tech cam as well, no need to discuss choices of bags, or cameras.

Let good photographers make their decisions and thats it. I hope.
 

I did try the PM route, but got no reply...... tell you what.... I'll just not respond to him on the forum.
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Anders_HK

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Re: New to site and DMF... Just in time with H5D ! Help Please.
« Reply #197 on: October 16, 2012, 04:53:14 PM »

I did try the PM route, but got no reply...... tell you what.... I'll just not respond to him on the forum.

Hmm... this???

His email:
Sent to: Anders_HK on: October 14, 2012, 11:37:47 PM
Look here mr "I know everything" about MF."


Anders HK and Fred, as much as I respect one and I'm bored by the other, you should keep your little fight to yourself or to PM.

The D800e is great, a P65 on a tech cam as well, no need to discuss choices of bags, or cameras.
 

Any gear that works well for anyone IS great  :)

The annoying is when someone constant post wrong facts due lack of knowledge of e.g. MFDBs. Big deal? Annoying because misinforms? Annoying to those who use the tool to produce images and tries to inform frank of it?

It would be nice, if we all could maintain respect, and base on facts of actual insights and knowledge collected by actual use of gear discussed, such as we have actually made quality images with. That includes any tool, as compared to mere posting of Googling that after one long read of text in links does not concur with the info that the one who posted link wrote or implied...


Let good photographers make their decisions and thats it. I hope.
 

Much agreed. It does not matter what we shoot, use to shoot with or prefer, as long as respect and not constant argue against a gear. Same goes for constant sticking up, look here mine is about same as yours. Very silly...

I believe it is about the image, and encouraging photographers to learn more of experiences. That can help to advance in photography with tools that can spur us to our photography. That was no difference in film days as it is now. A larger format, or different format or camera can encourage your vision. Years ago when I posted on dpreview that I was selling my Nikon D200 and going medium format digital, Thom Hogan posted that I would be better off spending money taking a course in Photoshop. Complete BS. Going into medium format digital was the right decision for me and has really helped me learn and advance in photography. That does not mean we are all same. For some dslr is the best tool, it is all individual, is it not?

Anders
« Last Edit: October 16, 2012, 05:03:31 PM by Anders_HK »
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FredBGG

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Re: New to site and DMF... Just in time with H5D ! Help Please.
« Reply #198 on: October 16, 2012, 05:45:53 PM »

Seeing as you decided to post what was sent to you as a personal message in response to one of your postings I feel I need to follow up on the above posting.

I sent you that message after you posted a reply pretty much saying I don't know what I'm on about regarding the correct deffinition of SLR, even when I showed you that the Hy6 is an SLR according the the manufacturer. You still claimed I was wrong... and consequently the manufacturer DHW Fototechnik is also wrong.

Screen shot of the manufacturers website.



BH website:



Mamiya press release:

« Last Edit: October 16, 2012, 06:19:43 PM by FredBGG »
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Anders_HK

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Re: New to site and DMF... Just in time with H5D ! Help Please.
« Reply #199 on: October 16, 2012, 05:53:04 PM »

Oh dear. My post was above (#165).

End of story.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2012, 05:58:55 PM by Anders_HK »
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