Cambo Wide RS or Alpa Max

[pemihan]

Hi,

I'm contemplating getting a tech camera to use with my Mamiya DM22 back (same as Leaf Aptus II 5) and am torn between Cambo Wide RS or Alpa Max.
My main subject is landscape where I often stitch panorama and would like to be able to do multi row stitch as well.

As I understand it the Cambo Wide RS is capable to do nine shots by only moving the back and as such completely avoiding parallax problems.
Using the Alpa Max is a bit more complicated as I understand it. You have to shift both the back and the lens to get nine shots, but you can get an adapter to mount the lens on the tripod and that way avoid the parallax problem.

A 35mm lens will probably be my first choice. Then I can built from there.

I would love to hear your input regarding the two choices.... (or other for that matter)

Thanks
Peter

[Paul2660]

I would also consider the Arca rm3di.  Any tech camera can do the 9 shot setup.  3 top, 3 middle, 3 bot.  Bigger issue will be time.  For each shot you will need to take an LCC and depending on your setup situataion i.e. wind clouds varying light etc. it may be hard to get all 9 in.

The rm3di by default will only give you 15mm horizontally vs the 20 that both of the others will give.  Your bigger issue will be finding any wide angle 35mm lens, Rod or Schneider that will let you go to a full 20mm.  The Rodenstock's have a built in disk that will stop you at around 7mm, the Schneider will start to show saturation fall off and detail smearing well before you get to 20mm.  Your DM22 may be a bit more forgiving with the larger pixels however. 

The  arca will also do the 20mm horizontal shifting if you rotate the camera 90 degrees on an L bracket something I do quite often.  To me the other features of the rm3di (focus setup, and ability to tilt with any lens) make it a great solution. 

Everyone has their own preferences. 

Paul

[Doug Peterson]

First it should be noted that in practice the impact of moving the lens a few cm up or down will only matter when there is foreground or mid-ground subject matter. On sweeping panoramas with only background/infinity elements there will be little if any effect. The determinate of moving the lens will be most evident on extreme compositions where e.g. a fallen tree is composed to be coming towards the camera. In such a case it is a large problem bordering on impossible to fix.

Here is a 9-shot stitch I took in Moab from an Infrared-modified Phase One P21.



Lens movement is likely not a big deal if multi-row stitching will only be occasionally used. But if you plan on making that a core part of your workflow then the Arca or Cambo solutions are significantly more elegant, as well as more compact and lighter than requiring an additional accessory and mounting the lens to the tripod.

With a Cambo Wide RS or Arca R series body the rise/fall/shift movements are all natively on the rear of the camera, such that the lens does not move at all for multi-row stitches. As a bonus tilt is available (natively) for every lens on the Arca as compared to the Cambo and Alpa both of which only offer on specific mid-wide and longer lenses (and Alpa only by means of an additional accessory and special versions of those lenses).

If you want to extensively stitch you'll want to stick with the lenses with larger image circles, and where available you'll want to use the matched Center Filter for each lens. The Schneider 43XL, 47XL, and especially the 60XL come to mind immediately (based on my own experience rather than just the stated image circles). If you email me I'd be glad to help you understand which lenses will yield what level of wideness with single shots, and 2-9 shot stitches as well as how well each lens will handle the required movements for those stitches.

We have recently opened a Remote Demo Center with high quality remote teleconferencing, screen sharing, and raw file sharing to provide customers who can't make it to our show floor the opportunity to see the nitty-gritty of working with such systems. We'd be glad to show you around a Cambo or Arca. Full disclosure: we no longer sell Alpa.

[Doug Peterson]

Also, I really enjoy doing vertical stitches. Once you have a tech camera and start to explore the myriad aspect ratios easily possible you may find that multi-row stitches are not the only time you use vertical stitching.

For this particular shot it would not have mattered if there was lens movement, but in others with more foreground content (e.g. a tall tree) it would be critical.

http://www.doug-peterson.com/getdpi-arizona-workshop-vertical-stitches/

[pemihan]

Thanks guys...

At the moment I'm leaning towards the Cambo WRS. I like the small overall package compared to the Alpa Max.
One thing however, on the Alpa you can mount the back vertically or horizontal, is that possible on the Cambo?

Dough, when I decide on the camera I might take you up on it and shoot you a email..

Peter

[Doug Peterson]

Yes of course. The back can be oriented vertically or horizontally on all three systems (Cambo/Arca/Alpa).

Notably on the Arca platform they have a rotating mount, which rotates in place such that the user does not have to remove the back in order to change it's orientation. Great for dusty environments and for klutzes with bad luck :-).

[flynnyfalcon]

I have a WRS and can't speak highly enough of it.  Incredibly small, impressive build quality, works perfectly and most likely will be cheaper than the Alpa.

Lens' come up often on the 2nd hand market if you're that way inclined, but bodies are rare...  That said, I believe their are a few available at the moment.

Good luck.

[pemihan]

How fast can you work with the WRS?
I'm thinking of the shifts, on the Alpa you can just slide the back if you have the need for fast shifting. Can you do something similar on the Cambo?

[Paul2660]

Shifting with both WRS and arca is geared.  Cambo has indents to let you know as you move each 5mm to 20mm. Arca does not.  Cambo is 20mm max shift all 4 directions. Arca by default is 15mm R & L horizontal shift and 30mm rise and 20mm fall.  As mentioned it's very easy to rotate the camera 90 degrees and make your rise and fall your R & L shift. 

There have already been a few posts covering the Cambo, the Cambo is a very tight and compact body which gives a great amount of shift/rise fall for it's size.  Cambo offers many of their lenses in a tilt/shift mount.  Cambo has excellent Right and Left Grips upgradeable to wood.  The 65th anniversary body has slightly larger shift knobs and a custom set of grips. 

Arca, needs the grip extension to really hold the camera well, and currently there is no left handle (a real weakness that needs to be addressed if you are right handed). I am and constantly wish I could grip the Arca with my left hand.   

To me the decision was very simple as there is no real way to use Live View in the field (on either Leaf or Phase) since you get terrible blooming, and the refresh rate is very very slow. Some feel that adding ND filters helps, I don't.  It take way too long and looks more like a psychedelic tirp.   Focus is still key and I felt and still do that the Arca solution still has the best all round focus design.  By taking the Helical away from the lens and making it part of the camera body, you get the ability to get very very detailed focus.  It's a very personal decision.  My key factor was the ease at getting my focus correct.   The other factor for me was the ease in which you can release the back with the Arca.  You can easily do this with one hand on the release the other on the back.  I did not feel that confident with Cambo's release.  In my work I am constantly rotating the back to portrait and back to landscape.  I just felt more at ease with the Acra release.   Arca also allows tilt on any lens mounted to the camera.  I find that tilt is very important with some of the wider lenses in my workflow. 

The best idea is that Doug suggested, find a dealer with at least 2 of the solutions, Digital Transitions or Capture Integration in the U.S. come to mind for Arca and Cambo.  It's very important to be able to use your back on these cameras and then you can see the pros and cons and figure out which one works best for you.   

I really can't speak to Alpa.  When I was in the decision process last year, I could not find any dealer interested in selling one or demo it.  It's very expensive, and still at this time does not offer tilt in the wide angle lenses.  This is being addressed as I understand it with a new adapter that has been announced by Alpa.   

Paul

[ziyatacir]

Last year,I was faced with the same dilemma and I decided to participate in a workshop organized by Capture Integration in Bretton Woods where Guy and Jack were instructors.In 3 days,I had a chance to test Arca and Cambo with IQ180 coupled with almost any lens that you can think of from Rodenstock and Schneider.At the end,I returned home with Cambo WRS AE,IQ180,Rodenstock 23,40 T/S and 70 T/S.I am so happy ,I mean really happy with my system.If I would have to choose one lens,I would definetely go with 40 mm.I should give special credit to everyone from Capture Integration.The service they provided was truly remarkable.
If you want to see some samples from my pictures taken with Cambo,
visit my site at www.ziyatacir.com  and please feel free to ask any questions you might have.
Ziya

[pemihan]

Thanks again all, very helpful info....

I think I'm inclined to go the Cambo way, the size and all the movements on the back is what really suits me.
Going to a workshop would be wonderful, but I'm located in Denmark and the options here are quite limited in regards to getting my hands on the gear before buying..

My tripod system is Really Right Stuff, what do you Cambo users use as a quick release plate?
I have tried searching the RRS website, but cant find anything suitable..

Peter

[schaubild]

http://www.photografica.com/kamera/teknisk-kamera/

[Ken Doo]

....
My tripod system is Really Right Stuff, what do you Cambo users use as a quick release plate?
I have tried searching the RRS website, but cant find anything suitable..

Peter

Peter,

I use the RRS MPR73 quick release plate with my Cambo WRS1050.  You need to be careful when ordering this plate and specifically request the 3/8" MPR73.  See, http://reallyrightstuff.com/ProductDesc.aspx?code=MPR-73-3/8ths&type=0&eq=&desc=MPR-73-3%2f8ths%3a-73mm-MPR-3%2f8th-threaded

Btw, I use a Gitzo 5541LS with Arca Cube or RRS TVC-24 tripod with my Cambo WRS1050.  The RRS PCL-1 clamp works well for a low profile lightweight head on the RRS tripod, but the Arca D4 is on "the list."