Dry mounting matte papers

[jinsonphoto]

I live in the Midwest & because of the humidity here its very common to dry mount large prints. If not I end up getting big waves in the print. Now the bulk of my work has been on e-surface & fiber papers. Recently I have discovered the new Epson Hot press papers & I absolutely love them. I'm curious before I buy a big roll & commit to keeping my 9800 set to matte if the matte papers will get waves like the e-surface & fiber papers if not dry mounted.

Does anybody here have experience with this topic. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Im just curious what others do. Because when the print is not staying & I see the 'waves' in a beautifully framed print I personally think it looks very unprofessional. So as a practice I have always dry mounted any prints larger than 13x19. However as I said, if these matte papers lay flat nicely I would love to stop dry mounting.


All the best~
Tony

[bill t.]

"Lay flat nicely" and "stop dry mounting."  Pick one.

Hinging and corner supports only make it worse.  If you don't want to mount he print, you can defer the rippling for a while by first flattening the print in a dry mount press or letting it dry in a blotter with weights on top.  But time is not on your side and the Grim Rippler will soon pay a visit.

Heresy alert!  The only method I know to have flat, unmounted prints in a frame is to press the print directly up against the glass.  One works with well dried matte prints, repeat...only with well dried matte prints.  Have a few of these that have survived beautifully for quite a while.  But not a very nice design concept.  And fungus, mildew, and such is not a problem where I live.

Sometimes people con themselves into accepting ripple in a framed print because they perceive it as "archival."  As time goes by, it starts to make them crazy and they wind up mounting it.  framah will back me up on this, maybe.

[Ken]

Same humidity problem here in New England. My matte paper experience has been primarily with Hahnemühle Photo Rag 308, and Canson Rag Photographique, and they react much less than any of the "photographic" papers that I have tried... but you can still see it when viewing from the side. About six months ago I started using Filmoplast acid-free "archival" pressure-sensitive tape sparingly on all sides of the print, and that appears to be working well, so far. Also, I apply several coats of Hahnemühle "archival" protective spray (instead of using glass) and that seems to aid in flattening the surface.

[jinsonphoto]

So it would seem that the consensuses here would be that even with matte papers if yount the print to lay flat your going to want to dry mount the print.

Just out of curiosity, what do most of you here do? Dry mount or not? (larger prints 13x19 & up). Please chime in!

I'm thinking that if I'm going to continue to have to dry mount large prints even with matte paper I might as well stick with my fiber & luster papers.

[Alan Goldhammer]

I have not mounted anything larger than 13x19 so this is limited experience.  However, using Mylar corner hinges and an over mat I have not encountered any buckling of framed prints.  This includes the following papers:  Ilford Gold Fiber Silk, Museo Silver Rag, Hahnemuhle Bamboo, Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Ultrasmooth, and Museo Portfolio Rag.  Total number of prints framed and on display in the Washington DC area about 35.  I've started printing on 17x25 but haven't framed anything yet.  I also follow the practice that Jeff and Michael suggest in one of the LuLa videos of leaving 1 inch margins on the sides of the paper and this may give added support for an over mat.

[Peter McLennan]

Dry mounting large prints, say 40X30.  Is that preferable to self-adhesive foamcore?  I guess my real question is, can I get away with self-adhesive foam core for prints that large?  Or do I have to dry mount?

I'm using RC  Microceramic Lustre paper from inkjetart.

[bill t.]

30 x 40 is difficult to drymount since you must do it in sections, and RC papers are particularly problematic for that.  That is, unless you have a 40 x 60 vacuum/heat press, which is a very useful item that takes up about as much space in your shop as a small car, and tends to turn into a storage table.  And requires a chugga-chugga vacuum pump.  But that would be the best option and you can sometimes pick them up cheap.

Lacking a vacuum/heat press, if I had to mount a lot of RC's that size I would want to have a decent roller press that could apply the print from a rolled configuration onto adhesive already applied to the substrate.

I used to mount RC prints to adhesive in that size range by hand, without rollers.  Failure rate was non trivial, and bubbles were a constant concern.

But however you do it, the part of the print that is being placed down onto the adhesive should be at the bottom of a curl, since that temporarily mitigates localized ripple at the critical moment of attachment.  And rollers do that pretty well.

But the vacuum/heat press is the best option.  Or use canvas and Muck it to Gator, which is the only rational way to make big prints.

[Richard.Wills]

30 x 40 is difficult to drymount since you must do it in sections, and RC papers are particularly problematic for that.  That is, unless you have a 40 x 60 vacuum/heat press, which is a very useful item that takes up about as much space in your shop as a small car, and tends to turn into a storage table. 
Lacking a vacuum/heat press, if I had to mount a lot of RC's that size I would want to have a decent roller press that could apply the print from a rolled configuration onto adhesive already applied to the substrate.

A vacuum  hot press can be good for this, but, if you're dealing with two impermeable materials (RC paper), then there is a danger that the edges of the paper can bond, before all the air has left the print, resulting in bubbles. A roller laminator / mounter has the advantage that the air is all driven out, so, provided the working area is spotless, you end up with a perfect flat image.

We bought our 60x40" Hotpress first, but discovered that we couldn't process aluminium, DiBond or Forex, because of the breathability issues (and because Dibond and forex don't like heat), so got a 44" Jetmounter (we're in the UK, so these are Hotpress branded Drytac products). I'd say we run 95% of mounting work through the roller laminator, and regularly apply HPR and canson rag onto a whole range of substrates.

We often use the vacuum press, after mounting with the roller, to cure the adhesive, when using dibond, MDF etc (heat and pressure makes a very permanent bond). In addition, in the dead of winter (coming in the next few months), we'll use it to pre warm laminates, prints and substrates. One other advantage of a hot press, is that you can use it to remove the moisture from the print and substrate, helping to reduce the chance of curl.

For mounting a 30x40, you'll need at least as much space in  front of the roller machine, as bench space behind it, so will also eat into space (if that is an issue).

If I had to pick one machine for mounting it would definitely be the jetmounter.

[Peter McLennan]

Richard and Bill, thanks for your detailed replies.  I'm retired and I'm doing this for me, not for profit so a multi-thousand-dollar vacuum press is probably not in the cards.  I see large drymount presses on ebay and was wondering if they might be a workable solution.  I did try mounting to straight foam core a few years ago with spray adhesive and  inconsistent results.  Some prints de-laminated over time, others are still intact.  No idea why other than my own lack of skills.  I'm assuming (and hoping) that the adhesive-backed foam core will do a better job than my spray can adventures. 

Bill, your advice on the durability and handling forgiveness of canvas is well taken.  I've printed and stretched a couple of rolls of Lexjet Sunset Matte now and the results are pleasing and consistent, even with my rough handling and less than optimal working environment.  I do like the increased gamut and contrast from the RC stock and I'd like to continue my experiments with mounting this material.

Thanks again.

Peter

[bill t.]

As with a normal drymount press, when mounting large RC's with a vacuum press it is still desirable to do a pre-heat step without the tissue to drive out moisture and iron the RC substrate flat.  Given a few minutes of rise time, there should be no problem with the press extracting air from the dried package.  But if there was steam present in the early phases, that can undermine the bond pretty seriously.

Peter, check out some of the glossy and satin canvases.  Very wide gamuts comparable to paper and RC media.  But goofy surfaces.  Some of the manufacturers are "working on that" but I'm still waiting.  But even so the prints are stunning on the wall and in spite of the surfaces.  They have a sort of dignified look that I greatly prefer to any glossy paper surface and which seems to have a lot of client appeal.  But I've been to Perdition and back with some still-beta glossy canvases, but it looks like things are better.

[Paul2660]

Adhesive backed form core is very un-forgiving.  If you have a large print and start the mount and pick up a bubble, all the brands I tried, will not pull back and your print is ruined.  I also tend to mount to a precut piece of foam core/mat, so the print has to line up just right or your mat won't fit.  The adhesive backed foam core, once you start the print if you are out of line, there is no way to correct it that I have found.  They all have a "high tack" property.

Spray, (I know many hate it and have reasons not to use it) will do a very good job on a rag paper surface, matte or semi-gloss.  The RC papers by their nature resin coated backs will sometimes come loose as the resin acts like a plastic and is harder to keep down.  I have started to use Elmer's acid free spray mount.  They make a standard and extra strong.  I use the extra strong and not had any problems with mounts coming off.  Spray still requires a booth and good ventilation.  

As Bill pointed out, the dry mount press is still the best solution.  Beinfang's are great. but a 40 x 60 is around 4995 new and is big.  I don't mount enough to justify it.  With larger prints, you do run into the problem Richard pointed out, where the center of the print may bond first and faster and thus creating a problem with bubbles.  Two mounting adhesives I used that did not have this problem, Ragmount (acid free and 100% cotton based)  excellent product works great with both RC and rag papers.  Fusion, which is designed to allow you to heat up the print after you mount it and take it off the mount.  Fusion is good to use on larger prints that might bond in the center first and cause bubbles, as you can heat it up several times to get the mount correct.  

Living in Arkansas, a dry mount of some type is needed, as the humidity here will always cause a ripple in a hinge mount over time.  

Paul

[Peter McLennan]

Peter, check out some of the glossy and satin canvases.  Very wide gamuts comparable to paper and RC media. 

Will do, Bill.  Thanks.  Just as soon as I get rid of another thirty feet or so of Microceramic Lustre.  : )