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Author Topic: Mamiya Leaf Credo 80 Review with Sample Images (RAW) + ISO Series  (Read 12801 times)

Brian Hirschfeld

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http://brianhirschfeldphotography.com/2012/08/19/hands-on-experience-leaf-credo-80-with-full-resolution-sample-images/

Here is a link to my newest article (meant to post it a while ago but got interrupted) anyway here it is, you may have seen the youtube video that I posted a while ago once I had that experience with it, and these images were taken that same day. You can download from the dropbox link at the end (don't need a dropbox account) the RAW files from the Mamiya Leaf Credo 80, PhaseOne IQ180, and PhaseOne P65+

Love to hear thoughts so I can keep improving.
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JV

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Re: Mamiya Leaf Credo 80 Review with Sample Images (RAW) + ISO Series
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2012, 08:30:24 pm »

Interesting read Brian.  Thank you for sharing.

I didn't realize that the Credo could be mounted in either direction.  I would assume the rotating sensor is probably still more useful for Hasselblad V and Hy6 but for tech cameras this could perhaps eliminate the need for one?  The Leaf Aptus-II 12 had the ability to produce 60MP square images.  Is that still possible?

Joris.
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Brian Hirschfeld

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Re: Mamiya Leaf Credo 80 Review with Sample Images (RAW) + ISO Series
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2012, 08:32:46 pm »

I do not know about the square images thing, but I believe it may be able to....don't quote me.

And just to clarify the two sensor mounts is ONLY available on the Hasselblad V model, which has its advantages on the V series cameras, but I would agree that its most useful application could be with technical cameras.
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nazdravanul

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Re: Mamiya Leaf Credo 80 Review with Sample Images (RAW) + ISO Series
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2012, 09:12:00 am »

The Leaf Credo 80 raw file of the hand is missing from the download ....
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Brian Hirschfeld

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Re: Mamiya Leaf Credo 80 Review with Sample Images (RAW) + ISO Series
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2012, 02:35:25 pm »

I believe that it is the first file in the folder....this should be a direct link....

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jch63h3fa7morr9/Mamiya%20Leaf%20Credo%2080%20Hand.iiq
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henrikfoto

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Re: Mamiya Leaf Credo 80 Review with Sample Images (RAW) + ISO Series
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2012, 03:01:13 pm »

Nice review, Brian!

I think it looks like a nice back.
The iso performance is better than the older backs, but it´s still useless above iso 200.
Personally I would never use it above 100.

At 400 iso a canon or nikon is most likely better.

Henrik

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Brian Hirschfeld

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Re: Mamiya Leaf Credo 80 Review with Sample Images (RAW) + ISO Series
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2012, 03:05:16 pm »

Nice review, Brian!

I think it looks like a nice back.
The iso performance is better than the older backs, but it´s still useless above iso 200.
Personally I would never use it above 100.

At 400 iso a canon or nikon is most likely better.

Henrik

Thanks,

Yes its ISO performance is good. I think the Credo 80's 400 is pretty good and usable in a worst case / if you have to situation.

I usually don't shoot my IQ180 over 100 so I am with you there. However the Sensor+ technology (available on the higher-end PhaseOne IQ), offeres results which I can say from experience have ISO performance which is usable to the 400-800 range for sure, of course only 20mp files. Of course, if you are as I have said for a while, if you have to be shooting your IQ180 @ISO 400-800 you may have brought the wrong camera with you....
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EricWHiss

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Re: Mamiya Leaf Credo 80 Review with Sample Images (RAW) + ISO Series
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2012, 06:23:48 pm »

Good to see Lance (whom I spoken to many times but not met ) in the video. 

Brian, your phase bias comes through in your words - and also your inexperience with working with these backs as well. You would do well to bring in more experience pro's feedback into the reviews if you are not going to run quantitative tests such as through Imatest.  Phase one did also offer a set of 4 color profiles for different skin tones that were available via download for their older backs.  I don't know if they still make a separate set for the newer backs or not, but they were useful.   Leaf's different portrait profiles (there are 12 for the Aptus 12) are excellent and they work in conjunction with the different curve sets so many combinations can be had.   I think its a real advantage and to my eye they still can produce more natural looking skin.   People can do the retouching however they like or phase one software has the skin tone tool set which is excellent, however why do extra work if you are able to get the look you want out of the camera?  It helps a lot that with the Leaf you can set the profile and curve you want in the back, so that when you review on the screen or laptop while shooting you know you are getting what you want or not and if its exposed/lit correctly for the final profile/curve.   It's a big advantage.

The one other thing revealed to all is the poor performance of  (steve H - this is for you) the DF body.  How can there be such terrible shake with the camera locked down on a tripod? The ISO 35 shot..... it's really visibly soft!    Come on - are there any modern cameras that would do this besides the DF?!  I hope phase/mamiya come out with a decent update at photokina.
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Brian Hirschfeld

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Re: Mamiya Leaf Credo 80 Review with Sample Images (RAW) + ISO Series
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2012, 06:31:26 pm »

I think removing bias from anything is impossible, but I tried to point out the things the Credo does "better" or at least differently. Advantages are subjective, and of course I comment on the Leaf profiles V.s Phase. I just don't find them to be that big of a deal.

Yes, the ISO 35 shot was taken without MLU and the mirror slap is evident at moderately slow shutter speeds, I believe this shot was between 1/10-1/15th it might be slightly faster, I havn't looked at the EXIF in a while. Either way, there is no getting around the need for MLU with longer exposures on the 645DF....Personally when I shot my H3D-39ms / Rented H4D-50 and H2 + P65+ Cameras, when doing longer exposures I was always in MLU for ultimate stability, hadn't tried anything without it and can't speak for the S2 but I can't see why they wouldn't have the same issue. Only things I see not having that issue are technical cameras, since they are sans mirror.....am I wrong?

P.s I see the 645DF being the weaker link in the Lens - Body - Back chain form Phase but still think it is very usable. 
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henrikfoto

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Re: Mamiya Leaf Credo 80 Review with Sample Images (RAW) + ISO Series
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2012, 06:43:29 pm »

I totally agree with Eric about the DF. I have used it for some months now and it's just getting worse..

Yesterday I picked up my old Contax 645, and did a few tests against the DF. The mirror movements from the Contax is much softer and causes less vibrations. The Contax is also rests better in the hands and "feels" betteer.

If Phase one doesn't come up with a new camera for their great backs this Photokina, I am selling all my
Phase/Mamiya gear this year.


Henrik
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EricWHiss

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Re: Mamiya Leaf Credo 80 Review with Sample Images (RAW) + ISO Series
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2012, 12:21:16 am »

Maybe I'm spoiled because the Hy6 has a dedicated MLU button located at the top of the grip easily reachable by my thumb when holding the camera.  When mounted on a tripod the button is on top of the grip near the shutter so also convenient.    I was using this all the time until I tested shots with and without and realized that I don't seem to need it.   ;D    The mirror is very well damped on the Hy6!   I have never understood why Phase has not picked up this camara platform.   Considering all the effort they have spent developing the DF and lenses, you'd think they would have much preferred to start with a more advanced platform from the beginning and one that had a larger format too with room for sensors to grow.

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nazdravanul

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Re: Mamiya Leaf Credo 80 Review with Sample Images (RAW) + ISO Series
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2012, 07:44:01 am »

I believe that it is the first file in the folder....this should be a direct link....

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jch63h3fa7morr9/Mamiya%20Leaf%20Credo%2080%20Hand.iiq

That link doesn't work, I keep getting an error message. I did manage to download the other files just fine. Can you please see if you can fix it ?
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nazdravanul

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Re: Mamiya Leaf Credo 80 Review with Sample Images (RAW) + ISO Series
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2012, 06:04:56 am »

That link doesn't work, I keep getting an error message. I did manage to download the other files just fine. Can you please see if you can fix it ?

Ok, the link is fixed, no error message, the file has been downloaded. The problem is my C1 doesn't see it and cannot open it (I'm running 6.4.3 on a Snow Leopard iMac ). Does anyone else has the same problem (the Leaf Credo hand file doesn't show up, at all, the rest are fine) ?
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Steve Hendrix

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Re: Mamiya Leaf Credo 80 Review with Sample Images (RAW) + ISO Series
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2012, 07:37:18 pm »

The one other thing revealed to all is the poor performance of  (steve H - this is for you) the DF body.  How can there be such terrible shake with the camera locked down on a tripod? The ISO 35 shot..... it's really visibly soft!    Come on - are there any modern cameras that would do this besides the DF?!  I hope phase/mamiya come out with a decent update at photokina.

Thanks for thinking of me Eric.


Maybe I'm spoiled because the Hy6 has a dedicated MLU button located at the top of the grip easily reachable by my thumb when holding the camera.  When mounted on a tripod the button is on top of the grip near the shutter so also convenient.    I was using this all the time until I tested shots with and without and realized that I don't seem to need it.   ;D    The mirror is very well damped on the Hy6!   I have never understood why Phase has not picked up this camara platform.   Considering all the effort they have spent developing the DF and lenses, you'd think they would have much preferred to start with a more advanced platform from the beginning and one that had a larger format too with room for sensors to grow.




There is MLU control also located near the shutter release of the DF body. It does help to use it. I'm a fan of the Contax and the feel of its mirror. That alone does not mean the Contax is the best choice for everyone. Clearly the DF is not the best choice for you Eric. While I appreciate you thinking of me, I am not the great defender of the DF camera. Relative to all the other 645 format options, it has some tangible advantages that are important to many, and some disadvantages as well. I've never felt it was a great camera, but it certainly has merit for many. Frankly, every camera in this class has room for improvement, and I hope we see that in the next generation camera from Phase One/Mamiya.


Some notes on the actual review article -

The new interface is a clear improvement, though I never felt the original Aptus interface was not intuitive. In fact, I found it amazingly intuitive. While the internal battery is positive, it also limits the battery capacity due to the enclosure. The open architecture of the Aptus allows for larger capacity batteries (6900 mAh anyone?), as long as one doesn't mind the ergonomic messiness.

http://www.atbatt.com/product/4059.asp

The biggest advantage of the Credo is the new 1.1 million pixel screen and the much more robust internal processing. While the older interface - IMO - was not unintuitive, it was clunkily slow. In this regard the Credo completely dusts the Aptus.

The Leaf reputation for skin tones is not just from the customized ICC Profiles. The Leaf files transition between certain tones more gradually than the same out of the box Phase One file. It's not right or wrong, but certainly for skin tones, this is seen by many as an advantage. It is possible to alter Phase One skin tones with the Color Editor and dampen down those gradations and save them as new starting profiles, but the fact is Leaf files provide an excellent and effortlessly consistent starting point for skin tones. I don't know that fingers or iguanas effectively show this.


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
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FredBGG

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Re: Mamiya Leaf Credo 80 Review with Sample Images (RAW) + ISO Series
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2012, 09:00:34 pm »


The new interface is a clear improvement, though I never felt the original Aptus interface was not intuitive. In fact, I found it amazingly intuitive. While the internal battery is positive, it also limits the battery capacity due to the enclosure. The open architecture of the Aptus allows for larger capacity batteries (6900 mAh anyone?), as long as one doesn't mind the ergonomic messiness.


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration

Here is a handy workaround for the limitations of the internal battery.....

Copied form another post

These work great.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Lenmar+-+Lithium-Ion+Battery+for+Select+Canon+Camcorders/9345443.p;jsessionid=715FC6A3765F6DA5375ED4A5E4BA0C60.bbolsp-app04-66?id=1218088196402&skuId=9345443&st=9345443&cp=1&lp=1

$ 30.

They are actually on sale now for $26.98

In my test they lasted only 20% less than the 2900mh batteries when new.
These 2000mh batteries ended up lasting just as long as the 2900 batteries after both have been used a few times.

I have used these on Phase Backs as well as other devices (hard drive audio recording and external portable hard drives).

They have a nice snug fit too.

Best to buy more lower cost batteries and get rid of them before they get tired

Lenmar also makes bigger ones that you can use with a Canon CH-910A charger.



The charger doubles as a multi battery holder and charger. You can mount two batteries
to the charger and power the camera (charger not plugged into AC)

You can even put two of these on the ch-910A

http://www.lenmar.com/Web/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductID=LIC941



For a total of 12,000mAh

They are $ 60 each.

Very handy if you ae doing long exposures in cold conditions.
Batteries can be kept warm while powering the back

The CH-910 even lets you change batteries on the fly without powering down.
Kind of overkill for stills, but handy for other devices.

The adapter cable needs a small mod to lock into the IQ180 etc, but fits perfectly on the P and P+backs.
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EricWHiss

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Re: Mamiya Leaf Credo 80 Review with Sample Images (RAW) + ISO Series
« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2012, 12:32:54 am »

Thanks for thinking of me Eric.

The Leaf reputation for skin tones is not just from the customized ICC Profiles. The Leaf files transition between certain tones more gradually than the same out of the box Phase One file. It's not right or wrong, but certainly for skin tones, this is seen by many as an advantage. It is possible to alter Phase One skin tones with the Color Editor and dampen down those gradations and save them as new starting profiles, but the fact is Leaf files provide an excellent and effortlessly consistent starting point for skin tones. I don't know that fingers or iguanas effectively show this.

Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration

Steve, no offense intended naturally. You had commented in a previous thread about my bashing the DF and I merely was tipping my hat to you here because well ... you were correct.  Putting that aside, can you shed some more light on your comment regarding how Leaf files transition between certain tones differently.   Should I assume you mean the tonal curves supplied by Leaf in conjunction with the profiles or are you talking about differences in the hardware such as the DA converter or other downstream electronics? 

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