Epson 7890 scratches back side of roll paper

[mcgruenigen]

Hi,

I was printing with an Epson 7890 on a Canson Baryta Photographique 24" roll with great results, but now I'm starting to notice quite severe scratches on the back side of the paper (while the front side looks perfectly fine) which absolutely did not appear on the previous prints.
I have attached a photo of what I'm getting now  

I'm using the very same settings as before (printing from Mirage), so my only exlanations are 1.) that this is because of paper curl, which gets more distinct towards the core of the roll and 2. a possible printer malfunction.

Any ideas much appreciated.

Thanks in advance…
Andrej

[bill t.]

Check to see if the marks are on unwound parts of the roll, could be a manufacturing thing.  Have never seen a case of scratching where it was more than a single isolated track, sometimes from an object that was trapped in the printer path.

Hold the paper in position on the printer and see if the marks correspond to anything you can see, screws, rollers, whatever is there.

[mcgruenigen]

Thank you Bill.
I had the chance to do some testing and attached a photo of the plastic part that seems to cause the scratches.
Maybe increasing paper suction to max. will prevent the plastics from scratching the paper…I will test this later.

[DeanChriss]

I've seen this on my 7900 but they aren't so much "scratches" as they are shinier marks from the surface rubbing against the vacuum manifold. I discovered this the one and only time I tried printing on both sides of 2-sided paper. I concluded that these machines aren't made for 2-sided printing and never put time into trying to solve the issue. I suspect printers that use rollers or "pizza wheels" to hold the paper would do much better in this regard than ones that use vacuum. I think using the minimum vacuum required to still hold the paper flat and prevent head strikes would minimize the problem but there's no way to prevent the paper from rubbing on those plastic rails. That's what they're designed for. Whether this would decrease the marking to the vanishing point depends on the paper, how stiff it is, and how much curl it has. You also run the risk of head strikes by decreasing the vacuum too much.

[Paul2660]

Every Epson I have used does this on most RC based papers.  You can see a definite pattern that is about 1" to 1.4" apart.  As has already
been pointed out, the marks are made by the raised parts of the platen.   I have opened several calls with Epson on this as my 9880 did
it so bad that sometimes on thin RC paper you can start to see the marks.  Epson after several calls and about a 2 month time frame told me
it was "normal"  I then started a search for paper that was more suitable and would not create the marks.  I I am often surprised more people
don't notice this issue. 

I know that they are on the back of the print, however when you are selling a printing service, many folks don't understand what this is and
wonder about your printing. 

My bigger issue now is the fact that these same marks push though to the face of almost all of the glossy RC prints I make on my 9900.  You can see them
when the print held and moved around in the light.  Again Epson told me "normal". 

I feel the problem is worse with the 9900 than my 9880 as unless the glossy prints are dry mounted, you will see the marks.  The only paper I have found
that is able to run through the printer without this problem is the Moab Lasal Glossy 270 W.  Lexjust Sunset glossy also works, but it's a bit thicker and
will often pick up a scratch from the printer.  It's also not must my 9900 as I made a point of traveling to 3 other 9900's and they all did the same thing, plue
the prints that Epson sent back to me from CA also had the issue.  (prints they felt were normal)

Canson Platine, Byarta, Epson Exhibition fiber, all run through with out the pressure marks.  I am assuming the RC base is much harder and one pressed
will not smooth back out unless the force of the dry mount press is applied.   

Unfortunately, there is no "fix" for this. 

Paul

[mcgruenigen]

Thanks a million for sharing your experiences…
Strange thing is that I once again checked the first 4-5 24x30 prints which I printed on the same roll and there is not even the slightest sign of pressure marks. After these few prints, it gets worse and worse. I was able to reduce paper suction to a minimum without getting head strikes and the marks are slightly less noticeable, but still not acceptable in my opinion. As Paul said, this may not be a problem for many people because the marks are on the back, but I really feel uncomfortable to sell these prints to customers.
I'll try to de-curl the paper before printing and see if it gets any better.

[Paul2660]

I also tried the reduction of suction.  As I understand it, by reducing suction it only stays reduced as you load the paper, then as the printer starts to print, it will
take over at it's wanted amount.  This is also true on increase of suction. 

The ridges in the platen are pretty consistent across the 7800/9800 7880/9880 and now the 9900 family.  However I have seen other 9880's that did not make the marks as hard.

The Decision one reps that worked with me on my 9880 took a few of my images to a shop in Memphis that had a 9880 and 9800 that were 100% canvas.  It was interesting
that on these two machines the marks were very faint and to be fair you really had to look for them.  I assumed that since they were using Canvas, the backing may have
rubbed down the ridges just enough to make them a bit less rough.  On my machine Decision One tried using a very light 4000 grade sandpaper and it did help especially on the
RC prints.  However they had Epson's blessing before they did it.  I was a bit wary of this. 

My last 9880 was by far the best for not making the marks but it would skew large  prints so bad I finally had enough and worked with Epson to return it and get a credit towards
a 9900. 

Paul

[darlingm]

In case this information helps, I've made a lot of prints using my Epson 9900 on Breathing Color Vibrance Metallic, and haven't had any scratching on the back.  I haven't tried their Vibrance Rag product yet, but it's a 325gsm (18mil) photo paper advertised as a baryta gloss finish.  Not sure if this would run through without scratching on the back, or if this would otherwise meet your needs.  They have a 17" x 20' trial roll for $29.95.  The price of a 24" x 40' roll (while your rolls are probably 50') is $148/$122.84/$108.48, with the second price being when you purchase 3 discountable products and the third price being when you purchase 10 discountable products.  Their gallons of laminate and their higher end papers are generally considered discountable products.  You can mix and match, so one gallon of laminate, a roll of fine art paper, and a roll of photo paper count as being 3.

EDIT: I may have spoken a little too soon.  I just double checked, and if I hold the back of Vibrance Metallic to be completely parallel with a light (meaning if I angle it just slightly more toward me the light doesn't hit it) then I see a little bit of what shows in your image.  It's noticeable, however is way less noticeable than it looks like in your picture.  If I angle it even slightly more into the light, I don't see it.  If I hold it up in front of a light, I don't see it whether looking at the back or the front.  I'm extremely picky, and have never noticed this before.  Vibrance Metallic is only 10mil, so perhaps being thinner is why it's toned down so much.

[mcgruenigen]

I also tried the reduction of suction.  As I understand it, by reducing suction it only stays reduced as you load the paper, then as the printer starts to print, it will
take over at it's wanted amount.  This is also true on increase of suction.

At least when printing from Dinax Mirage, you can adjust the amount of suction for every media type in software which then will also apply while printing.

Well, after wasting about 60€ worth of paper, i feel like giving up on this.

@darlingm
Breathing Colors seems to be impossible to get here in Austria without paying an arm and a leg for shipping. Always wanted to try their canvases though…

[Paul2660]

On the Breathing color Vib. Rag, you won't see the marks anywhere as bad if at all, since it's a 100% cotton base.  The only
papers I see this effect on are the RC coated ones, as the back is a plastic material and seems more prone to show the marks.

The Vibrance Rag also is very durable.  I mainly moved to it since the coating allows for a lot more handling but it has a very nice
look/feel to it also. 

Paul