Epson 9600 Profile question

[Stefan Wood]

Hi, this is my first post on this forum.  Before I ask a question, let me introduce myself.  I am a painter turned photographer within the past year; I work at the National Gallery of Art in exhibition design, and on a daily basis work with three large EPSON printers - a 7800, 9800, and a 9890.  Last month I bought an old EPSON 9600 from Craigslist; I had it serviced and bought a set of Cone Color inks for it, and so far, everything has been running smoothly. 

Except when it comes to profiling.  I am running a Mac Mini with OS 10.7.4; have Lightroom 4.1, and my monitor is calibrated using xRite i1profiler.  The 9600 did not come with the original software, so I downloaded the driver from the EPSON site.  When soft proofing an image in Lightroom, I am not able to bring up the EPSON Enhanced Matte (that is the paper I am using) icc profile.  It is not in my Library folder, nor anywhere else.  I tried to download Bill Atkinson's profiles, but the .sea files no longer are read by Stuffit Expander.  I am currently playing with the Cone Color profile for Enhanced Matte, but the color space looks really faint.  I am working on a night scene, and the blacks become way less contrasty when I use the Cone profile.  I am playing around with settings, but I am basically scratching my head right now.  Also, I was wondering why the standard EPSON 9600 paper profiles are not able to be found anywhere in a non .sea format.  I was wondering if someone can send me an unexpanded profile?  Also, are the Cone Color profiles so way off? The .pdf file from Cone about using icc files talks only about Photoshop, not Lightroom. In general I am good about management, but I am needing a little guidance.

[Alan Goldhammer]

If you are using the Cone inks in this printer (3rd party and not Epson), you should use the Cone profiles or make or have made some profiles for this ink set as the inks are likely to be different in some way from the Epson inks.  As to the problem you are having the Epson profiles, it sounds as though that is a Mac problem and I cannot help you there being a PC user.  I did look on the Epson website and they have the profiles there for downloading and the Windows profiles behave normally.  You say there is a difference between using the Cone profile and not.  Is this just in soft proofing or have you compared prints made with and without a profile?  Matte papers do not have as wide a gamut (or black point in the case of B/W work) as do glossy papers.  Lightroom is far superior to Photoshop for printing in that you can set up presets for various papers and layouts but the way they handle profiles is the same.

[Stefan Wood]

Yes, I am using the Cone profiles.  Done the soft proofing, as well as used different profiles (used a profile for adorama matte, as I had used their adoramapix site to create a book).  The adorama profile was darker, in that the blacks were deeper than the Cone profile.  The colors were deeper as well.  When using the Cone profile, the detail in tone was excellent but the entire image looked like I had placed a transparent film on top of it that deadened the tones.

[Farmer]

When you say you're using an Adorama profile do you mean one for their book service?

The reality is this - if you are using Cone inks then the only profile of use to you is a Cone profile for the particular printer and paper and ink combination that you are using.  It will be what it is, compared to other profiles, but you can't change that.  You can adjust your image accordingly, though, to get the results you want using that combination.

[Stefan Wood]

I understand that.  I'm not trying to turn apples into oranges.  What I am saying is that the tone range on the Cone profile is very limited, when compared to adorama or adobe rgb profiles.  This is based on test prints I have made, not just staring at the screen.  The colors are deeper on the other profiles than the Cone.  I left a message with Cone Inks to see if there are adjustments that can be made (gamma, etc.).  I know that matte does not have the same range as glossy, but you can get rich colors on matte paper.  This is why I am asking again if someone has the icc profile for enhanced matte for the 9600 that is uncompressed, so I can make a final comparison.

[Farmer]

Adobe RGB isn't a printing profile, so you really shouldn't compare it to an inkjet printer profile.

The Adorama?  I don't know what process they use to print.

Your test can't possibly be valid.  If you are printing using profiles other than those designed for the Cone inkset on the 9600 with the paper you are choosing, then it's wrong.  The profiles are explicitly for use with either the appropriate combination of printer/ink/paper (i.e. the Cone profiles or the Epson canned profiles - for use with Genuine Epson ink on their respective media) or a synthetic space representation (such as Adobe RBG).

Perhaps it would help if you confirmed your colour management workflow from LR?

[Stefan Wood]

In Lightroom I work in Adobe RBG.  When I soft proof, I choose the Cone enhanced matte profile (relative) and start making adjustments.  When going to print, I select the same profile and print.   I make sure in the print window that any settings that the printer wants to do in terms of color profiling are turned off.  And I make sure the correct paper format and inks are chosen.

[Farmer]

OK - that's correct.  So, what is the issue?  That the Cone profile is less than Adobe RGB?  It always will be.  Once's a synthetic colour space and the other represents actual ink on paper.

Sorry, I don't really understand the problem or the relavence of other profiles if you're using Cone ink, unless you're thinking of going back to Epson genuine ink?

[mjcreedon]

Stefan,
No mention whether you loaded Matte Black or Photo Black inks to your 9600.  You might check to make sure that Matte Black is loaded when printing on Epson's Matte Paper.  Your description of your prints sounds like it could be an MK/PK issue.
I used to own a 9600 and can send you the Epson Matte profile but Jon's ICC profiles should yield the best printer/ink/paper output.
Michael

[Stefan Wood]

It is matte black. 

[mjcreedon]

Stefan,
Attached are two Epson 9600 MK profiles along with a gamut map showing how each profile compares.  The Pro 9600 is very small compared to what I think is Bill's Std profile.  Jon's profiles should still work best with his inkset.
I'm sure you've run a nozzle check to make certain no nozzles are clogged.  If there are any clogged nozzles it could bring about what you have talked about.  There are at least three cleaning cycles including the normal K one mode, KK two and KK three.
Hope this helps.

[Farmer]

Michael - very astute to ask which black - good information!

[mjcreedon]

Thank you for your kind words Phil.
Printer workflow is another area to double check.  I print through PS5 not LR4 and I know the workflow is very specific.  One missing piece of the puzzle could yield unsatisfactory print output.  Here is a free online site that might have answers.  Michael and Jeff's LR4 Printing Workflow another good choice.
  http://tv.adobe.com/watch/adobe-evangelists-julieanne-kost/lightroom-4-print-the-perfect-image/
Sometimes it is only a simple adjustment to fix a printing problem.  Let's hope this is the case.

[Stefan Wood]

I am reviewing my work flow, and I am left scratching my head.

Apparently, the new EPSON drivers that became available for downloading earlier this month places the icc profiles in a different folder (/Library/Printers/EPSON/InkjetPrinter/ICCProfiles/), than in the Colorsync folder, which was why I could no longer see them in Lightroom 4.1 or Photoshop CS5.  After moving them there, they reappeared.

Another member of the board was very generous in lending a hand by building me a profile based on test prints to see if there would be any improvement.  The result was slightly better, but still very light, like you take a photo and put a piece of transparent vellum on top of it.  When I selected the EPSON Enhanced Matte 9600 profile, the resulting image looked very close to what I had on the monitor.  I had sent a message to Cone Color support, but I have not heard back from them.  I am at a loss as to why there is such a discrepancy between the profiles.  I can only think I am missing something, somewhere.

[digitaldog]

Apparently, the new EPSON drivers that became available for downloading earlier this month places the icc profiles in a different folder (/Library/Printers/EPSON/InkjetPrinter/ICCProfiles/), than in the Colorsync folder, which was why I could no longer see them in Lightroom 4.1 or Photoshop CS5.  After moving them there, they reappeared.

Epson drivers on the Mac have placed their profiles in a package for years now. I’ve never had any issues seeing said profiles within LR either so I suspect you either have a permissions issue or need to run Profile First Aid found in the ColorSync utility.

[Stefan Wood]

Epson drivers on the Mac have placed their profiles in a package for years now. I’ve never had any issues seeing said profiles within LR either so I suspect you either have a permissions issue or need to run Profile First Aid found in the ColorSync utility.

Definitely not a permissions issue.  I forgot about the utility; I'll run that. 

Yes, they have run a profile for years, but this was the first instance where the profiles were not put in the correct place.

[Stefan Wood]

OK, after all this time, it came down to me using Airport Express (the newest one), and my desire to make the 9600 connect to it, and from there to my computer wirelessly upstairs.  The Epson driver never worked, but the CUPS/Gutenprint did -- why I do not know.  Using the Gutenprint results in the hazy looking prints.  Connecting directly, I can use the EPSON driver and get all the tones and rich colors I was missing.  It has a built in Ethernet Type B card, but I thought I could hook that to the Airport Extreme and run it wirelessly.  Turns out not to be the case.  I have spent many days pouring over the internet forums -- Apple, EPSON, etc, and while I see many others who have had similar problems, there was not one single solution to follow.  I guess I'll have to connect by bringing my computer downstairs to run out prints.

[Farmer]

You could do it if you run a wireless bridge, rather than an access point - that requires two wireless stations linked to each other in bridge mode.

An easier method is probably to use Ethernet of Power.  There are many options available now and the technology is very much matured and extremely useful.

[Stefan Wood]

Something like this?

http://www.amazon.com/ZyXEL-HomePlug-Powerline-Wall-Plug-Adapter/dp/B003ULOZ5W/ref=pd_cp_pc_3

So, as I had it set up, connecting the EPSON from the Ethernet T-Base port to the Airport Express is not enough (from there it is linked to the router).  I would need another Express?  One to act as a WAN and the other, being connected to the printer, as a LAN?