Mamiya Factory profile

[FredBGG]

Interesting...

http://www.mamiya.co.jp/saku-factory_2012.pdf

[PdF]

The pictures are particularly ugly!

PdF

[georgl]

Thank you, very interesting find! A glimpse into production often tells you more about a company than all the marketing and tests published... 

Indeed, the machines are certainly not state-of-the-art anymore, although maybe sufficient for many applications when the employees are trained and skilled enough.

[ondebanks]

Thanks for sharing that!

This caught my eye: "New #1 shutter being developed". Could imply that there are larger-aperture LS lenses in the pipeline for the 645.

Ray

[MarkoRepse]

Thanks for sharing that!

This caught my eye: "New #1 shutter being developed". Could imply that there are larger-aperture LS lenses in the pipeline for the 645.

Ray

My thoughts exactly! It would be nice if it were true

[PeteZ28]

Thank you, very interesting find! A glimpse into production often tells you more about a company than all the marketing and tests published... 

Indeed, the machines are certainly not state-of-the-art anymore, although maybe sufficient for many applications when the employees are trained and skilled enough.

Aside from the multispindle machine, which looks like it may have been custom built for milling focus helicoids, the rest of their CNC machinery looks reasonably current, and the Okuma LB2000 lathe is a current model. The Mitutoyo CMM is also a current model. Seems like a pretty standard mix of machinery vintages to me, no less diverse than what I've seen fortune 500 companies cutting defense, nuclear, space, and medical implants on.

[georgl]

@PeteZ28

Maybe I'm spoiled by seeing the Zeiss plant Oberkochen  Newest DMG-machines and even hydrostatic Kern (easily >1Mio$ each)... And this is the "low-precision" (~10-1µm) department and not even their semiconductor-optics/mechanics production! It's time that Zeiss goes back into the photography-lens business... They make spectacular f1.2-lenses for cinematography-applications with great success and all we get are designs that Cosina can manufacture...

[PeteZ28]

@PeteZ28

Maybe I'm spoiled by seeing the Zeiss plant Oberkochen  Newest DMG-machines and even hydrostatic Kern (easily >1Mio$ each)... And this is the "low-precision" (~10-1µm) department and not even their semiconductor-optics/mechanics production! It's time that Zeiss goes back into the photography-lens business... They make spectacular f1.2-lenses for cinematography-applications with great success and all we get are designs that Cosina can manufacture...

Ahh... yes that very well could be the case. I'm sure the Zeiss plant is spare no expense (their products sure are!). I think overall they are just operating at a different level than Mamiya entirely. Mamiya is focused largely on digital imaging, be it photography or now industrial imaging. Zeiss has always been a very diverse, high end optics company. Do one thing and do it very, very, very well. High end optics are always going to demanding, whereas most camera body components are of comparatively lower precision. Mamiya would need far less high end, sophisticated equipment to manufacture their products.

Did you get to see the Zeiss plant in person, is there an online video you could share? I'd love to see the inside of their facility! Having worked in the manufacturing/machining environment for nearly 20 years, I'm still continuously impressed at the innovation I see when I walk into a new operation.

[georgl]

Maybe we should include other findings of photography-related factory presentations? I'm only aware of a very superficial (final assembly) Leica video!?


Regarding Zeiss:
I've visited the HQ in person but most of the tour segments weren't dealing with photographic equipment, sadly... But what I saw was really impressive, it's the number one optics company worldwide, period. They control entire market segments where even Nikon and Canon have given up to compete (EUV-mirrors for next-gen semiconductor production with less than 0.15nm!!! height deviation - custom-made manufacturing and measurement technology). There are basically no pictures on the net - their makreting is German: it sucks.

And what do they offer for photographers? As most German companies, they don't like the "consumer-market" and they only offer lenses when sombody is ordering them (they're only in the cinematography-business because of ARRI). When Hasselblad thought they could get their new lenses cheaper elsewhere (and didn't order re-designs for 30 year old designs), Zeiss lost interest in the whole market. All they do now is putting their precious label on Cosina- or Sony-lenses, while Leica cannot even manufacture enough 10k$ Noctilux-lenses... 

Mr. Zeiss, Mr. Abbe, arise from your grave and give us some Master Primes for 24x36mm and beyond! 

[PeteZ28]

Maybe we should include other findings of photography-related factory presentations? I'm only aware of a very superficial (final assembly) Leica video!?


Regarding Zeiss:
I've visited the HQ in person but most of the tour segments weren't dealing with photographic equipment, sadly... But what I saw was really impressive, it's the number one optics company worldwide, period. They control entire market segments where even Nikon and Canon have given up to compete (EUV-mirrors for next-gen semiconductor production with less than 0.15nm!!! height deviation - custom-made manufacturing and measurement technology). There are basically no pictures on the net - their makreting is German: it sucks.

And what do they offer for photographers? As most German companies, they don't like the "consumer-market" and they only offer lenses when sombody is ordering them (they're only in the cinematography-business because of ARRI). When Hasselblad thought they could get their new lenses cheaper elsewhere (and didn't order re-designs for 30 year old designs), Zeiss lost interest in the whole market. All they do now is putting their precious label on Cosina- or Sony-lenses, while Leica cannot even manufacture enough 10k$ Noctilux-lenses... 

Mr. Zeiss, Mr. Abbe, arise from your grave and give us some Master Primes for 24x36mm and beyond! 

So the Zeiss lenses sold for quite princely sums for 35mm SLR's / DSLR's are not even made by Zeiss? 

[drevil]

its pretty well known that consumer lenses by zeiss are made in japan!
they said the newly redesigned 15mm lens would cost 5000$ and more if it would be produced in germany.

i still wanna know which qatary person ordered the 1700mm lens and what did it cost him 

[FredBGG]

Canon camera manufacturing.

http://youtu.be/Lkv0Sc2MxP8

Canon Lens manufacturing

http://youtu.be/MKNFW0YwDYw

What Carl Zeiss is upto...

http://youtu.be/Y50SGqC7pJE

http://youtu.be/WbukKUi3vHw

Nikon also makes semiconductor manufacturing equipment

http://www.nikon.com/products/precision/lineup/nsr/index.htm

Fuji Film is very active in semiconductor materials and processes.

Canon is heavily invested in industrial lithography systems

http://www.canon.com/products/industry.html

It seems that the most successful camera manufacturers have some very high tech divisions in other fields.
At the same time companies that are limited to only camera manufacturing are not doing so well.

I think this is largely due to the fact that the type of technology involved in modern cameras requires
knowledge and research that cannot be supported by only camera sales.

[FredBGG]

http://www.thereportage.com/index.php?p=1&ida=123#

Hasselblad assembly factory.

Keep in mind though that most of the H camera is made in Japan by Fuji.

Some assembly in Sweeden.

[FredBGG]

The pictures are particularly ugly!

PdF

I think it's more of an industrial / financial presentation.

[PdF]

<<I think it's more of an industrial / financial presentation.>>


I made many images of industrial sites. I could measure the different ways to present an industrial process. A manufacturer of photo equipment could have a good image. This does probably not interested Mamiya.

I would not have been very proud to present such images to my client.

PdF

[georgl]

i still wanna know which qatary person ordered the 1700mm lens and what did it cost him

If I remember correctly, a sheik visited the factory and asked for a lens to take pics of his flying falcons. Zeiss that said such a lens would be possible but not feasible as a unique copy. A few months later he made the payment together with other sheiks who also ordered the lens... It was ~2M$ each!

Seeing the pics from the Hasselblad facility makes me sad and angry! They build an entirely new HQ, ergonomic, nice workplaces making the best MF-cameras in the world! Then they killed it off by buying the cheapish plastic (yes, I know, the frame underneath is metal) Fuji and about 450 of 500 (~) highly-skilled employees in Gotenburg lost their jobs! They wouldn't even be able to make a 200 or 500 series camera anymore! They could have designed a wonderful new AF-system but not a Mamia 645-copy with central shutter... Argh, don't get me started! Mr. Hasselblad should have given the company to a foundation like Zeiss did...

Thanks FredBGG!
And what do you see from Zeiss production? They are too humble^^ (or too stupid to show off and point out differences to Cosina) I have experience with "international production networks" and despite much higher salaries, the core facilities are often operating cheaper because they're more efficient. Why they're offshoring production? Ask the very same people who ruin worldwide economy... The Cosina lenses are only cheaper because of lower quality-standards - the lens grinding, mechanics machining and assembly is certainly not slower or less efficient in Oberkochen/Jena...
Of course Master Primes are not feasible for photography but implementing this technology into a photographic line-up would be a great success - Investing 3k$-10k$ into a lens makes more sense than ever, IMHO.
Just as a comparison, while they're showing off the Cosina-made 15mm with halfway usable IQ near corners, they make the MP 12mm in Oberkochen/Jena with 90° horizontal angle of view and higher IQ @ f1.2 !!!

[heinrichvoelkel]

Regarding Zeiss:
And what do they offer for photographers? As most German companies, they don't like the "consumer-market"

Looking on the state of the German economy, I'm sure there is some reasoning behind it.

And which German companies are you talking about? Daimler Benz? Audi? Porsche?

[georgl]

Try to find products "Made in Germany" besides cars for the end consumer - and still they export trillions... Zeiss could offer superior products to the high-end consumer market but instead they just sell their brand...

[PeteZ28]

http://youtu.be/WbukKUi3vHw

I worked at (and continue to be a vendor for) a company that did a lot of high end machining for AMSL, in particular this machine: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZNxneIv6ms

They actually use a drop of water as a final conduit for the light source to reduce the etch size. Very neat project to be involved in even if it's just a small role. I don't know exactly what these were doing in the machine but there were lots of high tolerances and wacky materials being used for thermal stability, and I sense from some of the part names and the tolerances that these were critical parts of the optical system. Some of the parts had literally hundreds of hours of machining in them. Fun stuff!

[PeteZ28]

http://www.thereportage.com/index.php?p=1&ida=123#

Hasselblad assembly factory.

Keep in mind though that most of the H camera is made in Japan by Fuji.

Some assembly in Sweeden.

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