First photo printer - Prints GROSSLY dark - nearly all black

[cliffhanger9]

I have been sending my photos out to be printed and they have always been great but too costly and timely. So I just got my first proper photo printer - an Epson Stylus R2400. And everything it prints is GROSSLY DARK. Dark purple/black. I'm not talking about a relatively minor calibration difference between a monitor and a print, you wouldnt even recognize the photo.
See attachments to get idea of what I got vs what should look like.

I've tried letting Photoshop CS5 handle the profile, I've tried letting the printer handle the profile. I've printed from Windows Explorer (on Windows 7 64-bit), I've printed from web browser. Same result each time.

Any ideas what is going wrong? I am a quick learner and relatively tech savvy but new to this and causing (and co$ting) lots of frustration with each attempt.

[Mark D Segal]

The first thing to check for is whether you have double colour management going on. When Photoshop manages colour, colour management in the Epson driver should be turned off - "no colour management" and vice versa. It's also quite possible there may be an issue with the printer. You should contact Epson tech support to discuss the problem with them.

[lfeagan]

Although I have created my own prints for a long time, until recently I hadn't put in the think time and money to really dig into why sometimes mysteriously, to me at least, my prints came out too dark or with bizarre colors (just like your scenario). Long ago I read multiple books about color for photography, but without having a tool to explore my specific scenarios, it all remained a bit abstract and useless to helping me achieve my goals. Things were basically hit or miss. Thankfully I got more hits than misses, but I feel your pain. I recently acquired Chromix ColorThink Pro and it has opened my eyes up to what the heck was going on with my prints in a way that soft proofing didn't even remotely convey to me. I am not necessarily suggesting you buy the tool, as it is rather expensive, especially in relation to an R2400, but being able to explore with it really enlightened me. Most of the time I have seen articles and posts discussing paper, printers, color spaces, or similar topics I can now tell that the graphics were generated by ColorThink Pro.

There are many potential things that may be causing you headaches like this. Rendering intent, the paper's capabilities, monitor calibration, double profiling, no profile, wrong profile, bad profile, bad printer, bad ink, wrong color space.

I would recommend checking out Camera to Print and Screen (CPS). It will help get you on the right track.

My previous printer was an R2400. It was a good little printer and can produce quality output. If you send me the photo (even a small 512 pixel version, just attach it in a reply) and tell me the profile you are using with your paper and the rendering intent you are outputting with, I can tell you in a jiffy if just based on these variables if the print will come out dark. I actually intentionally went through this exercise recently so I could demonstrate to a group of students the very phenomenon you are describing happening.

Are you printing from the JPEGs you posted? If you are, I will just use one of those. Just tell me the other variables. I am going to guess you aren't as the JPEGs have no profile attached to them.

Lastly, changing the rendering intent is probably the easiest way to get things more sane looking. Perceptual is likely your best bet when things are too dark. I would guess you are printing with absolute colorimetric as the rendering intent. Often times it can be quite dark.

[Tony Jay]

Even with double colour management the prints are unlikely to turn out as dark as described. I have been there and done that a couple of times myself.

It is much more likely that a very simple problem is responsible for the observed prints - a monitor that is much, much too bright. The result is a print that is much, much too dark.

In order to get a better idea you need to calibrate your monitor. Part of this process involves deciding on the brightness. However, a lot of monitors will not allow the brightness to be reduced to levels that are approriate for photographic editing and printing.
However, brightness in the range of 90-140 cd/m2 is usually appropriate when it can be achieved.

One of the reasons that (expensive) monitors for photographic editing are actually sold is that they allow the required reduction in brightness (luminence).
Another reason is the consistency of colour and luminence across the entire screen. Monitors not designed with this purpose in mind often have quite startling differences in luminence and colour towards the corners.

You do need to get a fundamental idea about colour management in order to print successfully. This is definitely an achievable goal especially for anyone with a bit of "tech savvy". This website has several excellent resources that teach colour managment.

Regards

Tony Jay

[lfeagan]

Just for kicks, I assumed your photo's data was for the sRGB color space and mapped it over to Epson Enhanced Matte (a paper I am not particularly fond of, having used it with my R2400). Looking at the photo of the climber, the red shirt, black pants, and the far left and right areas will be darker. Looking at your photo of the prints of the photo more carefully now, I am starting to wonder just what the heck is going on. Are there really like gold-fleck looking traces on the climber print nearly center? From what I see in the JPEG, those should be more like greyish-whitish tones.

Also, can you describe what is going on in the print with the rocks that are on the left of the climber (aka the bottom of the picture of the print)? They appear to be almost psychedelic colors. The print almost looks like it has islands of black with white borders tiled in this area. While the photo has texture there, the difference in the colors and luminosity appears to be much more subtle. The print seems to have a massive difference in luminosity. I am starting to suspect something is whacked out with your printer delivering ink correctly.

[Mike Boden]

I seriously doubt that this is due to a monitor brightness issue. Of course, that's always something that plays a part, but based off of your images, it looks like a problem with the printer. So if it were me, the first place I'd start is with the printer by doing a "Printer Check." On page 96 of the User Guide, you'll see the instructions for "Running A Printer Check". If this isn't successful, call Epson. If it is, then you want to start looking at your specific settings in Photoshop.

[cliffhanger9]

Mark - as mentioned I tried doing both - turning off printer color management vs application color management with no difference.

Lance - I resized the attachments so that I could upload them to forum limits, but yeah, same JPEG. I've been using Relative Colorimetric, for photo presentation matte paper. Photo was of the Adobe RGB workspace and printer matched as attached settings indicate.
Not so much gold flecks as much as voids of ink presumably to get the white-ishness (since there isnt white ink) The rocks are totally black when you look at it straight on. from the angle I took the photo of there is a glare which is the only way you can see what I too would describe as psychadelic blobs - nearly all black and very dark purple.

Mike - I've done Auto Nozzle Check and Cleaning but will see about the "printer check"..


I've sent the same files, as is, to other automated print shops (snapfish etc) and the prints come out just fine and don't think this is a case of my monitors being THAT far off (and frankly not in a position to spend hundreds on calibration hardware and software).
Again with what I am getting now, you cannot even distinguish what the photo is. It looks like a psychadelic blob of really dark ink. I've read many of Andrew Rodney's articles on Color Management from http://www.digitaldog.net/tips/ and feel I have an awareness of the fundamentals.

[cliffhanger9]

also - I realize the matte photo paper is not particularly great paper but just testing with what I have before I purchase more expensive paper.
I have a hard time believing that the paper selection would make the prints THAT far off.

[Mike Boden]

It looks like you've got AdobeRGB set as your printer profile in Photoshop. You want to specifically choose the profile that matches the paper that you're using.

[Mark D Segal]

I have a hard time believing that the paper selection would make the prints THAT far off.

It wouldn't. Mike Boden's first recommendation is spot-on.

[lfeagan]

Since this guy is suffering, someone please correct me if I overlook something. I think he has no profiling on whatsoever. Printer Profile in Adobe is set to Adobe RGB (which should be something like Epson Stylus R2400 + whatever paper he is using) and the color correction is also off in the print driver.

Notice how Printer Profile looks in this screen shot.

[Mike Boden]

someone please correct me if I overlook something.

I think you're right. I already saw that and commented earlier that he's got it set to AdobeRGB. He needs to specifically choose the paper profile.

[pfigen]

The one thing I see wrong with your setup is that you're using AdobeRGB as your printer space, so depending on what the actual printer space is and what your actual working space is, that might account for the problems you're having. You need to put the paper profile there instead.

[pfigen]

See what happens when you get a phone call while typing. Mike, you need to get back to work now.

[lfeagan]

Just to give credit, I snagged that screen shot from here, which has all sorts of info on printing and color in PS CS5.

[Mike Boden]

See what happens when you get a phone call while typing. Mike, you need to get back to work now.

all work and no play makes jack a dull boy!

[cliffhanger9]

Tried with proper paper profile and getting closer...still weird but closer.
Did Mike's suggested Printer Check and I am wondering if my yellow ink tubes are clogged or something - seems the light colors arent making it out..

Will keep playing with this and see about how to clean them out

I really appreciate all your swift responses, guys! this is a great welcoming community

[Alto]

Hi All

Try with a known test print you can down load test patches etc that will give you a bench mark rather than with one of your images . (good as it may be it won't be suitable for testing/repeatability )

Hope this helps for now .

Jon

[Peterretep]

Run a nozzle check, the printed pattern will tell you whether you have a clog or not.

Peter

[digitaldog]

Try with a known test print you can down load test patches etc that will give you a bench mark rather than with one of your images . (good as it may be it won't be suitable for testing/repeatability )

A reference image like this: http://digitaldog.net/files/Printer%20Test%20file.jpg