Break in the storm

[Dave (Isle of Skye)]

Break in the storm - Eilean Donan Castle.

We've had nothing but wall to wall sunshine up here on IoS for the last two months, but on this particular day it had been raining none stop. We were bored, so we decided to go for a drive in the rain and as this castle is on the main road just down from our house, so we get to drive past it a lot. So off we set with no intention of going anywhere in particular, or trying to shoot anything in particular. Then just as we were about to drive passed the castle again, a hole opened up in the clouds and shone a beam of light down over it, I swung the car into the car park, jumped out, set up quickly and managed to fire off a few shots before the hole in the clouds closed up again.

I have never seen the air so clear or the detail so crisp.

Dave

[shutterpup]

A pretty picture postcard.

[Chairman Bill]

We've had nothing but wall to wall sunshine up here on IoS for the last two months

Obviously lying through your teeth. It always rains on Skye - everyone knows that! Sunshine - as if. 

As for the photo - it just doesn't look right to me. I've been there in decent weather, so the lack of rain isn't what's wrong, it's the lack of shadow.

[louoates]

It looks a bit HDR regarding shadows. I'd probably add a new layer and paint in some dark shadows where appropriate. I do like the storybook color effect however and the pleasing composition.

[RSL]

Dave, it's very beautiful, but it looks a lot more than Lou's "bit" of HDR. Looks like lots of tone mapping. Tell me it isn't.

An aside: For a copyright notice to be valid it needs three things: (1) The notice, (2) the date of first publication, and (3) the name of the holder. (1) can be either "Copyright," or "Copr.," or ©. In this case a valid notice would be "Copyright 2012 by Photography.info." I don't know what the situation is in the Isle of Skye, but here in the U.S. I don't need to worry about a copyright notice. I automatically own and hold the copyright as soon as I trip the shutter. But out of very long force of habit I still add a subdued copyright notice. "Subdued" is the keyword.

[fennario]

Nice image - agree that it's a bit too bright in the shadows/foreground.  Would love to see it a bit darker overall with the ray of light striking the castle/rocks more defined.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... I have never seen the air so clear or the detail so crisp...

I do not think that the posted image does full justice to that feeling. Is it again your own version of Hass/Orton softening effect? Or just jpeg compression?

[Riaan van Wyk]

I like the composition but not the processing Dave. 

[Dave (Isle of Skye)]

Dave, it's very beautiful, but it looks a lot more than Lou's "bit" of HDR. Looks like lots of tone mapping. Tell me it isn't.

No Russ it definitely isn't HDR and neither is it tone mapped - I really and honestly do not use or like HDR or tone mapping - the light really was amazing, but having said that, I also freely admit that I do work my images to get as much detail as I can out of them, by pushing and pulling curve adjustment layers etc and blending them back together through various masking techniques. But perhaps it was the light and natural clarity as it happened to be when I took this shot, that has allowed me to find even more detail in this image than you would normally see.

Yes Slobodan I also do a softening and sharpen thing, as I like the effect, so no it isn't an effect from the JPG compression, but perhaps seeing part of the image full size would show you what I am trying to achieve - I will crop out a section for you to look at 100%.

Also the colours of the first version are correct and fully balanced against each of the other colour channels individually (yes I also have a near mathematical process for doing that as well - OCD anyone?), so yes, the seaweed really is that bright up here, as I am sure Bill who having been up here many times will know and agree.

Bill, have you not noticed on the national UK weather forecast for the last couple of months, that the north west of Scotland (IoS in other words) has completely missed all the rain and bad weather due to the jet stream moving down over France and dumping all the bad stuff on you guys. It really has been absolutely glorious up here for months, wall to wall sunshine.

But having waffled on endlessly here, I must also say that as always, I am more than willing to listen to the suggestions of my fellow photographers and I will do as you suggest. I will add more shadow effects for you Lou and remove the copyright thing all together Russ, neither of which should be a problem, just give me a few moments.

And here it is - not to sure I like though  

Dave

[Dave (Isle of Skye)]

And here is the 100% crop of the above toned down and shadow enhanced version 

I think you can now see, that even in this re-worked version, that this is not an HDR/tone mapped image..

[Riaan van Wyk]

snip...I also freely admit that I do work my images to get as much detail as I can out of them, by pushing and pulling curve adjustment layers etc and blending them back together through various masking techniques...snip

From what I have heard that sounds exactly like tone mapping.

[Chairman Bill]

I think it's the relative lighting - the near edge of the castle should be in shadow, but it's got pretty much the same light value as the woods beyond. Just doesn't feel right.

As for the weather - I suspect an evil Scots plan to draw unsuspecting sassenachs up north, as sacrifice to the Scottish midge.

[RSL]

...I do work my images to get as much detail as I can out of them, by pushing and pulling curve adjustment layers etc and blending them back together through various masking techniques.

Otherwise known as tone mapping. It's just more work this way than if you use something like Photomatix or HDR Efex Pro.

[Dave (Isle of Skye)]

Otherwise known as tone mapping. It's just more work this way than if you use something like Photomatix or HDR Efex Pro.

I entirely disagree Russ, tone mapping or HDR is simply loading your work into one of the well known programs out there, hitting the 'make my image look like a cartoon' button, then tugging at a few sliders and accepting what the program throws back out at you. What I have done with this image is absolutely nothing like that. All I have done is realign the various tonal ranges to more accurately represent what the eye sees, as opposed to what the camera sees. So if this is tone mapping by hand or whatever you would want to call it then so be it, but then aren't you also saying that any manipulation of an image to enhance and bring out the details in the shadows or lower the tones of the highlights, is also a form of tone mapping or HDR? And if I am wrong and this is not what you are saying, then can anyone tell me where do we draw the line please?

On a side note - doesn't this mean that Ansel was the first HDR photographer?  I don't recall anyone ever telling him his images looked fake, because they did not look exactly like what came out of the camera.  

So we are all in agreement then, we should all throw away our copies of PS and LR, shoot straight into JPG and simply accept the image as it comes out of the camera, for to touch it with the intention of enhancement, would be to commit a cardinal sin against all that is holy in photography.

 

Dave

[Farmer]

I really love the image, the composition and the light, but another thread in which we have been discussing "apparent miniaturisation" as a look is something that strikes me here.

On the other thread, discussion included the thought that having everything in focus from foreground to background could give a lack of scale and I feel that here slightly, with the castle looking (at least on screen, it may be quite different in print) to be small in some way, even though logic and experience tells me otherwise.

I think I'd like to see the foreground and the background with appropriately less sharpness to help bring about a more natural feeling of scale and position.

It's nonetheless a beautiful shot and wonderful vision to see it and capture it.

[Tony Jay]

Until now I have been silent about this image - mainly because the image itself left me awestruck.

The tonal manipulations Dave refers may have been required to achieve the final result but the light that day must nevertheless have been extraordinary and the exposure of the image must also have been spot on.
The composition is glorious (really it defies mere adjectives) but the total package is just a symphony of light - the hues and tones beyond description.
Dave could set his camera to cover that exact composition every day for thirty years and not come close to recreating this image, Photoshop notwithstanding.

An extraordinary combination of serendipidity, artistic vision, and skill both behind the camera and in postprocessing.

Congratulations

Tony Jay

[Dave (Isle of Skye)]

Until now I have been silent about this image - mainly because the image itself left me awestruck.

The tonal manipulations Dave refers may have been required to achieve the final result but the light that day must nevertheless have been extraordinary and the exposure of the image must also have been spot on.
The composition is glorious (really it defies mere adjectives) but the total package is just a symphony of light - the hues and tones beyond description.
Dave could set his camera to cover that exact composition every day for thirty years and not come close to recreating this image, Photoshop notwithstanding.

An extraordinary combination of serendipidity, artistic vision, and skill both behind the camera and in postprocessing.

Congratulations

Tony Jay

Thank you very much for that Tony 

Dave

[RSL]

Dave, Let me start by reiterating that I really like the picture, tone mapping included.

All HDR involves tone mapping, but not all tone mapping is HDR. If you use Google to find a definition of tone mapping you'll find a bunch, but they all boil down to this simple one from "idigitalphoto":

"Definition: Graphical method changing tonal relationships by transferring values from one curve to another of different shape or slope. * Using the Curves control in image manipulation applications is essentially tone mapping. * Commonly used to mean tone compression in HDR techniques: where a long range of brightness values is compressed into the mid-tones.

And yes, Ansel did some massive tone mapping, but he wasn't an HDR photographer. Everyone tone maps. I tone map. Often you have to tone map in order to end up with what you saw when you tripped the shutter. Our mechanical (or chemical) devices are loaded with flaws that need to be overcome. But HDR involves combining more than one exposure in order to encompass the entire dynamic range of a scene that's beyond the ability of the sensor, film or digital, to capture without clipped highlights or shadows. Ansel used the zone system to determine how to expose his film, taking into account how he intended to develop the film. He'd vary his development time, and often mix different developers for different sheets of film. The reason I know this is that long ago I read all of Ansel's books on the subject, and tried to get Ansel-type results using his methods. Never could. Then I stumbled on street photography and the whole thing became academic.

[Dave (Isle of Skye)]

... Everyone tone maps. I tone map. Often you have to tone map in order to end up with what you saw when you tripped the shutter. Our mechanical (or chemical) devices are loaded with flaws that need to be overcome...

Sorry Russ, I agree.

When I teach this method as part of my workshops, I use no program other than PS (obviously) with the RAW files going through ACR completely untouched and straight into Prophoto 16 bit Tiffs, then everything else is done by hand.

Dave