Schneider 35mm f/5.6 - sweet spot aperture

[Alun]

Hi,

I would like to just get a feel before I test myself for the sweet spot aperture for the Schneider 35mm f/5.6 on a Leaf Aptus II 7 back (48mm x 36mm). Coming from a DSLR background, does the old adage of two stops from wide open (i.e. f/11) still hold although I have read that diffraction becomes more of an issue earlier with larger sensors (so f/8 would be better?). If anyone else owns and uses this lens, I'd appreciate your guidance.

Thanks in advance
Alun

[theguywitha645d]

Diffraction is less of an issue with a larger sensor.

[yaya]

Hi,

I would like to just get a feel before I test myself for the sweet spot aperture for the Schneider 35mm f/5.6 on a Leaf Aptus II 7 back (48mm x 36mm). Coming from a DSLR background, does the old adage of two stops from wide open (i.e. f/11) still hold although I have read that diffraction becomes more of an issue earlier with larger sensors (so f/8 would be better?). If anyone else owns and uses this lens, I'd appreciate your guidance.

Thanks in advance
Alun

I think you'll find it hard to tell the difference between f8 and f11 on the 35mm. At f16 you WILL see some loss of absolute sharpness although IMO for most applications it is still very useable

Yair

[Don Libby]

I've been using a Schneider 35mm on my WRS and 3-different backs for several years now.  P45+ (43.9x32.9) and P65+/IQ160 (54.9x40.4) and routinely shoot at f/11 with great results.

[Richard Osbourne]

I have the 35XL on a Wide DS and P45+. The sharpness (and depth of field) at F11 and F16 are stunning - better than any 35mm format lens I've tried. I haven't particularly noticed any obvious loss of sharpness at F16. These LF lenses seem a very different beast than DSLR lenses - much less finicky about stopping down. Flare is more of an issue though - need a decent hood ideally.

[pixjohn]

I shoot at f8 1/3 or f8 2/3 with my 35mm

[aviv1887]

My experience with the 35 XL, not great at f5.6-8, great/sweet spot at f11 and you can push it to f16 without noticing "real"diffraction.  If you use movement with this lens I highly recommend a centerfilter.

[Alun]

Thats great! Thank you all so much for the replies and I'll continue to use it at f/11 for the time being. I have certainly found this a very sharp lens. The weather in the UK needs to improve a lot for me to test t out in anger though!

[Paul2660]

Same as the others, F8 to F16,  However I have used F5.6 +1 a few times with OK results.
The issue you may have on the use of F16 is getting an appropriate shutter speed that will be fast enough not
to blur subjects, i.e. when shooting outdoors and working in windy conditions.  (typical for me) 

F16 without a physical CF tends to call for a shutter speed of 1/30 or slower @ iso50.  If you add the physical CF, then you loose an additional  2.5 stops.  This will bring you down to around 1/8th or slower. 

Sure it's possible to increase your iso, but you can only go so far on the Phase backs without gaining considerable noise.

One other suggestions on the physical CF. On this lens, I keep it on all the time.  The vignetting on center is pretty harsh and it makes the corresponding LCC have to work very hard.  If you shift at all, the CF is must have as the light fall uncorrected by a CF is extreme. 

Depending on your camera, you can increase the DOF of this lens considerably with tilt.  I use an rm3Di and have found that just giving the lens 1/2 a step of tilt can give you a much better hyper focal.  From around 18 feet to infinity to 11 feet to infinity at F8. 

On a 60mp Phase back, you can get about 12mm of horizontal shift before the harsh Magenta shift edges ruin the frame. Due to lay of the pixels on the Phase backs, you can get a bit more rise fall before the magenta shift is too extreme to fix. I feel that past 12mm on a horizontal shift, the image is non recoverable due to both magenta and detail smearing.


Paul

[tesfoto]

My experience with the 35 XL, not great at f5.6-8, great/sweet spot at f11 and you can push it to f16 without noticing "real"diffraction.  If you use movement with this lens I highly recommend a centerfilter.

I did a lot of test regarding using CF or not on this lens and also on the 47. I would highly recommend NOT using a CF as it does take sharpness away and IMO the LCC does a better job without CF if you go close to the edges.

It is very easy to do your own test to see for your self.

There is a little loss in sharpness between 11 and 16 - but I gain even more sharpness taking the CF off, so now I use the lens at 16. Before always at 11.

Cheers

TES

[Murray Fredericks]

My experience with the centre filter is very different to that of the above poster.

I found the CF almost 'essential' with the 35mm but not necessary  with the 47mm. I tested the 35mm with and without the CF and used both with and without in the field. I was only interested in the 35mm with a fair bit of rise applied though so all tests were performed with about 8-10mm of rise on the 48mm sensor (p65+).

Without the cf, the fall off with rise applied is so severe that the LCC has to 'rip' the corners of the image up to compensate. This can create an intense about of noise and sometimes makes the corners of the image 'unusable'. We did not notice any appreciable fall off in sharpness with the CF on the 35mm.

I see almost no drawback to using it except the loss of 2 stops  - which does make a differences in certain situations.

We also tested for diffraction and the drop off after f/11 was strong. even f/11 to f/11 and a third was noticeable in terms of sharpness drop off. f/8 was fine but f/5.6 was quite a bit softer.

Cheers

Murray

[Paul2660]

The physical CF on my 35 shows no apparent softness.  I have shot with and and without on a IQ160/rm3di.  As pointed out by Murray, if you don't use it the LCC
has to really work to pull up the corners and you will get noise in these parts of the image even at base iso.  If you shift compound the problem by about 5x.

I currently use physical CF's on the 43XL, 28 Rod, and 35XL and have ordered the new CF for the 60mm.

As other photographers here have reported softness, I would recommend testing it on your camera. 

Paul

[tesfoto]

My experience with the centre filter is very different to that of the above poster.

I found the CF almost 'essential' with the 35mm but not necessary  with the 47mm. I tested the 35mm with and without the CF and used both with and without in the field. I was only interested in the 35mm with a fair bit of rise applied though so all tests were performed with about 8-10mm of rise on the 48mm sensor (p65+).

Without the cf, the fall off with rise applied is so severe that the LCC has to 'rip' the corners of the image up to compensate. This can create an intense about of noise and sometimes makes the corners of the image 'unusable'. We did not notice any appreciable fall off in sharpness with the CF on the 35mm.

I see almost no drawback to using it except the loss of 2 stops  - which does make a differences in certain situations.

We also tested for diffraction and the drop off after f/11 was strong. even f/11 to f/11 and a third was noticeable in terms of sharpness drop off. f/8 was fine but f/5.6 was quite a bit softer.

Cheers

Murray

Interesting how two people can have such a different experience.

I shoot mainly architecture where I want everything as sharp as possible - so i do my homework very well.
I read a thread here a year ago or so, where people complanid about loss of sharpness due to Center Filters on Schneider lenses.
Before I that I always had CF on, and I never questioned the quality of sharpness - but decided to a test with and without (IQ160).

I cant hardly see the difference in sharpness between F11 and F16 - Mr Murray can se 1/3 of a stop, and I believe him.
However I can see a huge difference in sharpness with or without the CF - much more than from f11 to f16.
Sure you get more noice when you shift a lot - but you also get that with the CF. If you hit the dark corner the noice is acutally lower without the CF, but in some areas close to the corner, yes the CF on will have less noice by a margin. However I will gladly trade (noice) in with noticebly sharper images (even in center where the CF has less effect, the gain in sharpness is very visible) but that is a personal choice.

I still wonder how people can not see the difference in sharpness. Do a simple test - just shoot without shift, with and without the CF, and that will be the end of any discussions regarding sharpness.

IMO

Cheers

TES

[free1000]

I've shot with the 35XL at f11 and f16 on an Aptus 75,  architecture landscape and interiors and find it to be fine.  My largest prints are 50"x40" and they looked very detailed.  (Gallery presentation)

I don't shoot with the CF, actually I've got a mint one to sell if someone wants to get one.

I never found a problem with sharpness at f11 and f16, but then I'm not overly obsessed with it, more with the picture as a whole.

Since I got a D800E I've been trying to see how close it can get to the 35XL/Aptus 75 combo, and the answer is, a long way, but nothing like as good, in any respect,  resolution, DR or a broader impression of aesthetic appeal.  But then I can't shoot in the dark with the Aptus 75, so its horses for courses, I'm loving the D800E as my second camera and I'll use it for my night work which I've been doing with a 5D2 and struggling (http://www.paulfreeman.com/n/galleries/03%20%20luna/index.html).

I've found the guidelines on sharpening in this post http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/index.php/photoarticles/68-effects-of-diffraction  very revelatory regarding offsetting the effects of diffraction at f16 using convolution sharpening.  With the D800E and the Nikon 24f1.4 lens I can get some very good results at f16 followed by this sharpening recipe.

So I tried the same thing on my shots from the Aptus75 and 35XL shot at f16 and its similarly revelatory. Its possible to extract a lot more additional detail this way. I suppose if I had a greater than 33Mp back, maybe a 60 or 80Mp back I might be more concerned with the effects of diffraction. But I've been hearing about this theoretical problem ever since I got my Aptus 75 in 2006, and never really seen a problem, or had anyone criticise an image for being soft.
 

[epines]

@free1000 --

Sent you a PM. I'm interested in your 35mm Digitar center filter. You can reach me at ethan@ethanpines.com.

thanks
e

[maurizio montagna]

I for sale:

 
Schneider-Kreuznach lens APO DigiTar  XL 5.6 35 mm for Rm3D,               

Schneider-Kreuznach APO DIGITAR XL 5.6 35mm XL for Rm3D lens like a new perfect condiiton lens and shutter, box, not used.


http://www.ebay.it/itm/110921012266?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1558.l2649