Brush Marks on Prints using Timeless

[Johnny_Boy]

I've been coating BC Lyve canvas and Elegance Velvet using Timeless for a few months using a small dense roller brush. I can't seem to get a perfect coating with no brush marks whatsoever. It is not as noticeable on the canvas vs matte paper, but the problem is still there. I use Timeless satin on paper and gloss on canvas.

I think I am following the Timeless Video instruction exactly, but I get brush strokes.

See the image below where it shows the raised lines. Those portion will be more shiny as well since it is thicker than the rest. What am I doing wrong? I thought they will level out as they dry, but they don't. Those lines come from the edges of the small roller as it pushes the extra coating to the side and creating lines.  

(You can also see the craters on the image. Once I saw the lines after the initial drying in 30 minutes, I though if I laid thicker the lines will disappear. It didn't, but it created those craters. Also it raised the texture on the paper which was completely flat previously)

After trashing four 24x48 prints due to this problem on the custom order in past 2 days (on Pura Smooth paper which is the worst in terms of showin this defect), I gave up temporarily on using a brush indoor and used HVLP sprayer outside. It came out perfect.

However, it is hard for me production wise to spray outside all the time due to the local weather problem. I would like to use roller if possible.

Thoughts on how to remove those lines by rolling? I thought about using bigger roller foam, but I think it will still leave the marks, just not as often.

[Ken Doo]

My guess is that too much pressure is being applied to the roller.  When applying the coating, use very gentle pressure, overlapping strokes, and as the print is coated, continue with less and less pressure until only the weight of the roller of used.

[MikeWhitten]

I agree with what Ken said. I use a good bit of pressure at the very beginning of applying the Timeless and can see the roller marks. Very quickly I transition to light pressure and make my last passes using just the weight of the foam roller on the print & never see the ridges.

[louoates]

I don't use Timeless but your problem is surely the roller pressure on your last pass. Also you'll have fewer potential marks with a wider roller.

[Johnny_Boy]

I am doing about 4-5 passes on the print, with the last pass being only one directional and only using the weight of the roller doing lots of overlap. I use firm pressure on the first pass as I was told to do. I did notice that it is generally my early strokes that gives those ridges, but using lighter pressure towards the end actually does not remove the ridges. If I give stronger pressure then I remove the ones, but create two new ones.


I am using 4-5" inch roller (not sure exactly on size), maybe that is the problem. I will try something like 8 inch roller and see what happens.  Also, it could be that I am using too little or too much coating? When I purchased 4 rolls of Lyve (24" and 36" rolls), I was told I need to purchase 2 gallons of Timeless for that. I barely finished the first gallon. So it is possible I am using too little?

I generally do not have the ridge issue on canvas, BTW, but in the right angle, I can see all my strokes. Are you guys getting perfect finish with no stroke marks at all on canvas using Timeless? So far I was only able to get that by spraying.

[Robcat]

but in the right angle, I can see all my strokes. Are you guys getting perfect finish with no stroke marks at all on canvas using Timeless? So far I was only able to get that by spraying.

One of the keys is looking at the right angle. Get your light at an angle so you can see the marks and texture and move your head around as you roll. I roll my prints on an island so I can move around the print too. You need to move you and your head to see all the inconsistencies in the finish. 1+ the other posters regarding a light touch at the end. Find all your ridges (ideally as soon as you create them) and gently, gently roll them out. Oh, and since the Timeless tacks up so quickly, don't dawdle. I've gone to spraying for consistency, but I actually prefer the sort of hand made look of the rolled finish---as long as there aren't ridges.
Rob P

[Moreno Polloni]

Thoughts on how to remove those lines by rolling? I thought about using bigger roller foam, but I think it will still leave the marks, just not as often.

I don't have a lot of experience rolling on coatings, but what I did find that helped quite a bit are foam rollers with rounded edges, and applying slightly less pressure on the overlapping edge as you're rolling. You might also want to experiment with a slight dilution of your coating material, maybe 5-10% or so.

[Stephen G]

I've coated a few large Lyve prints with Timeless and I settled on this method:

First coat: saturated roller with fast medium pressure coat. Very thin coat. only using about 100g per square meter of print
this coat does produce ridges, but very fine ones that get wiped out by the second coat.

wait 30-45min, print can be hung up to get it off your coating surface.

Second coat: pour 150-200g per square meter onto the print and spread it around rapidly, very light pressure
this now has to dry flat for about 1 hour to allow the coating to settle and spread. (Need I say you need a dust free room?) after this it can be hung.

[fetish]

It's all in the technique my friend, and that takes time to develop. There's only a short window of time for your rolling, depending on your local temperature and humidity.
There are 2 phases in rolling. 1st phase is even spreading, while the laminate is very fluid. you'd want to get as much area as you can in the 1st 1-2mins, evenly. Then comes the hardest part when the laminate is starting to dry and turn more viscous, this is when you roll away the lines that the edges of your roller creates. This is where you'd have to work on your technique.
No short way around this, apart from going the spraying route.

[darlingm]

I've coated a few large Lyve prints with Timeless and I settled on this method:

First coat: saturated roller with fast medium pressure coat. Very thin coat. only using about 100g per square meter of print
this coat does produce ridges, but very fine ones that get wiped out by the second coat.

wait 30-45min, print can be hung up to get it off your coating surface.

Second coat: pour 150-200g per square meter onto the print and spread it around rapidly, very light pressure
this now has to dry flat for about 1 hour to allow the coating to settle and spread. (Need I say you need a dust free room?) after this it can be hung.

Agreed, I've moved to doing two coats, the second not long (~30min) after the first.  It's made a world of difference.

Breathing Color also sells a new roller kit, where the roller is like 8-9" long.  This means less passes, and the roller is thin so it picks up less varnish.

Stephen G (and others) - What do you do for the "dust free room" issue?  It's always frustrating to find crap sealed in, and that's something I've wanted to improve, although I'm considering building a spray booth.

[Landscapes]

Stephen G (and others) - What do you do for the "dust free room" issue?  It's always frustrating to find crap sealed in, and that's something I've wanted to improve, although I'm considering building a spray booth.

I have found it impossible to roll because of as you say "crap sealed in".  When you lay it down flat, things wil fall on it.  When its hung vertically, this is much much better.. but are people rolling this way?  Anyway, spraying is the way to go.  You don't need a spray booth in my opinion.  This stuff isn't solvent and hence dangerous.  Sure, use eye protection and a mask because there will be a fine mist but I just spray mine in the bathroom, with foamcore hanging from the shower rod and then I clip the print to the foamcore.  Most overspray lands on the foamcore as there is a good 3 inches all around the print.  Yes, I do get coating on my bathtub, sometimes tiles, but all of this cleans up easily with a bit of rubbing and warm water.  This stuff isn't toxic so its not that big of a deal for a few pieces a week. 

[Stephen G]

Stephen G (and others) - What do you do for the "dust free room" issue?  It's always frustrating to find crap sealed in, and that's something I've wanted to improve, although I'm considering building a spray booth.

I take a chance, basically. I make use of a room that's hardly ever entered, so there's very little dust floating around. I've had far more trouble with small clots in the Timeless than I have had with dust.

Perhaps I should have written "low dust environment," or some such. Truly dust free is not practically achievable, we can just do the best we can.

One day when my volumes have increased I'll move on to spraying my canvasses. A true spray booth probably won't be necessary, just a section of wall with something like a large sheet of cardboard to catch the overspray.