looking to get into large format- which camera is right for me?

[MarkoMijailovic]

i'm looking to get into large format photography and was wondering if you guys could help me decide on a camera.

i shoot mainly fashion and portrait, with the occasional land/cityscape.

what i'm looking to do with the large format camera, is launch a new series of portraits that'd yield that classic lf aesthetic only achievable on, well... lf!

i've got a million and one questions, but will start with just a few:

how does it work with focal lengths? using 35mm as a reference point, would a 127mm on a large format system be the same as a 127mm on a 35mm system? it's focal lengths where i always get confused between the formats. i.e. my 90mm medium format isn't 90mm on 35mm.

aside from more movements, are there any advantages to a studio camera over a field camera? the fields are more in my price range, but if the difference is huge and to my advantage by going with a studio, i'd wait a bit and save up more.

being so big, how do you focus by just looking at the rear glass?... or is a magnifier needed?

how hard is it to learn the basics? i've, currently, no idea what all the movements do and how any of it works. i'm a fast learner, though.

apologies if these questions come off as stupid- i'm completely new to it, but do want learn quite badly.

[MrSmith]

a copy of view camera technique by leslie strobel is a good reference manual

[theguywitha645d]

You really need to learn focal lengths in the format and not compare. One way is simply know the film diagonal--the focal length divided by the film diagonal give approximate angular magnification. In 4x5, the film diagonal is 150mm. So 150mm is normal. A 300mm is 2x--300/150. A 75mm is 0.5x--150/75. Since the 35mm diagonal is 43mm. If your magnification is 2x, then the 300mm is about the same as an 86mm lens on 35mm. So if you like a 35mm focal length on 35mm, that is about 0.81X. 150x0.81=121mm. A 120mm lens on a 4x5 would be what you need.

Do you want to hold this camera? Linhof and Wista make a 4x5 rangefinder flat-bed technical camera--this is the original technical camera, not the rigid body types from Alpa and Arca Swiss that are also called technical cameras. A Speed or Crown Graphic could work as well. You could also look at a Razzie or some other converted Polaroid rangefinder.

If you want to frame on a ground glass, then there are other choices. The two main is whether you want to use a flat-bed or monorail camera. Monorails are very flexible, but are more awkward to transport.

4x5 is the most cost effective format to use and easiest to transport. 5x7 is an awkward format as it was never really popular. 8x10 wold be the next format to recommend, but costs go way up. And don't forget to put all the stuff you need in your budget like film holders, changing bag/tent, lens boards, etc.

Les(lie) Strobel's book View Camera Technique is a complete resource on the view camera and the way it works--my signed copy is on my shelf and it is as dry as the man was. It covers just about everything you need to know, but if you are looking for inspiration, this is not the book. The other down side, unless they have updated the volume, he gives focal lengths in inches.

[MrSmith]

If you want to frame on a ground glass, then there are other choices. The two main is whether you want to use a flat-bed or monorail camera. Monorails are very flexible, but are more awkward to transport.

unless it's a linhof technicardan which is very transportable and has axis tilts and rear shift/rise so you don't have to juggle movements like on a technika

[TMARK]

I would recomend getting a cheap camera with full movements, like a Toyo 45F, a few film holders, and one or two lenses in the 150mm to 300mm range.  This would be a relatively cheap, and workable, intro to the format.  If you like the 4x5 process, there are any number of Germanic cameras available that are pretty incredible. 

The difference in cameras, for your purposes, is reallu marginal.  If you shot architechture or products the differencs can be huge.  But in reality, these cameras are really just two boards connected by a bellows with a lens on one end, and a piece of glass on the other.  The differences in systems comes down to accessories, ease of focusing, and portability.

For portraits I like a 210mm (like a 100 or so on a 35mm system).  I also like a 300mm.  But remember, there are few limits on close focusing.  You are limited by the bellows extnsion, so a single lens would be OK to start with.  I like a 150mm for environemntal portraits.

For portraits and fashion you will use few movements, maybe front tilt, so I wouldn't be too concerned with movements.

I you like the process and working in the format, I recomend a used Sinar for studio and for portability, a used Linhof Tech IV, V or Master Technika.

I have a Sinar P/F system and two Technikas, a IV and a V.  I shot fashion, beauty and portraits with these systems.  Rarely did I use movements.

The Sinar system is the best there is, in terms of precision, the number of readily available accessories, and the ability to combine sytem standards and rails to make a camera that is suitable for specific shoot.  I prequently used the P rear and the F front standards for lighter weight.  I used a a P 8x10 standard.  I have 40" of extension rail.  I use a bellows as a lens hood.  A bellows or two for extension, and a bag bellows for focusing.  Want to compose using a corrected image?  Slap on the reflex box.

That being said, in teh field the technika's are fantastic.  Light, compact.  Everything I need for a shoot fits in a large Domke bag:  film holders, a body, meter, dark cloth.  Changing bag, and aditionl len, a polaroid back.  A tripod attachs to the bottom.

Whatever you decide, its a journey.  Fortunatly the basic stuff is chap nough to give it a shot with out a major commitment.

Good luck.

[FredBGG]

Hi Marko

First of all I took a look at your portfolio just to get a better idea of what you mean by your question....
Very nice work. I particularly liked the portraits.
So I probably should not give you any advice because you are what I would consider "competition"  

I shoot a lot of large medium format and Large format as well as other digital formats.

I think that a camera you should absolutely look at is the Fuji GX680. It is a cross between a MF SLR and a large format camera.

send me a PM with your email and I can send you a very useful system brochure on the Fuji GX680. Also the manuals.

It has a section that lists all the focal length equivalents to 35mm for the formats the GX680 shoots... that are 645, 6x6, 6x7 and 6x8.

The best thing about the GX680 is that all the lenses have tilt and shift... such an important part of classic photography.

Here are a few shots taken with the Fuji gx680 with film.


Harsh developer to bring out grain

[MarkoMijailovic]

Thanks, everybody, for the great replies. I'll be sure to check out the view camera technique book.

Fred, I was looking at the GX680 when getting my medium format camera, an RZ67 Pro II, and while I found it very appealing, I thought "if I'm to get a camera THAT big, why not just go LF?". I'm kind of still on that page. Another reason I'd prefer to go LF over the 680 is that a large part of my desire to go LF stems from, as silly as it may sound, the Polaroid type 55 films borders; something I'm looking to incorporate into a fine art portrait series I'll be hopefully starting soon. I know, going LF just because of a certain film types border sounds crazy, but it fits in perfectly with my vision- not to mention that's not the only thing I'd be using it for/with, of course!

[benmar]

Inexpensive 4x5 field cameras, like the wooden Tachiharas etc tend to have fewer movements (like back rise and fall) which is probably not a problem for the kind of work you want to do, but as TMARK mentioned, would be less convenient for say, architectural work. To build on another one of TMARK's comments, they usually have shorter bellows, like I think 12 inches, which is pretty well used up just focusing a 300 mm (approx 12 inches) lens at infinity. When you focus closer, say for portraits etc the camera extends, stretching out the bellows and you may run out of bellows length. Yes, probably better off with a 210 maximum on such a camera. So if you want to work with longer lenses (and even a 300 on a 4x5 is not that long a lens compared to what we often use with 35mm systems) get a camera with more bellows extension. Wooden cameras do have a real classic charm about them which I think adds to the experience and some of them have longer bellows. I think that Leslie Strobel's book is probably more dense with information than you need starting out.

[MarkoMijailovic]

Not that I'm 100% certain what lesser (in terms of number of, not quality of) movements mean exactly, but if it's to do with creative that shallow DoF so often associated with LF images, I definitely want that. I love those portraits by the likes of photographers such as Roversi where it's all very blurred out except the eyes. Would definitely like to have certain parts of my subjects blurred out with focus on one specific area. Also, is it not possible to buy bellows + rail extensions for a 4x5 field camera? I would ideally like to be using a 127mm & 300mm. I really do need to do a lot more research, since as you can tell I'm completely clueless to the world of LF.

[FredBGG]

Thanks, everybody, for the great replies. I'll be sure to check out the view camera technique book.

Fred, I was looking at the GX680 when getting my medium format camera, an RZ67 Pro II, and while I found it very appealing, I thought "if I'm to get a camera THAT big, why not just go LF?". I'm kind of still on that page. Another reason I'd prefer to go LF over the 680 is that a large part of my desire to go LF stems from, as silly as it may sound, the Polaroid type 55 films borders; something I'm looking to incorporate into a fine art portrait series I'll be hopefully starting soon. I know, going LF just because of a certain film types border sounds crazy, but it fits in perfectly with my vision- not to mention that's not the only thing I'd be using it for/with, of course!

Among the many reasons why I like the GX680 is that it is a full tilt shift system with a reflex viewfinder.
A relfex viewfinder is just such an advantage for shooting shallow depth of field. On top of that shooting roll film at 6x8 gets you very
close to what you can do portrait wise with a 4x5inch camera. You need to keep in mind that you cannot compose very tight with a 4x5 camera due to the time it take after focusing and composing to load film
adjust the shutter etc and then shoot. You just have to keep some safety room in your composition.

Also you can still shoot hand held with the Fuji GX680 or on a monopod and still shoot wide open.





I have the GX680 as well as 4x5 and 8x10. I never end up using the 4x5.

Lately I am doing some interesting 8x10 direct to paper and paper negative shooting. Very neat for portraits.

[Pingang]

all the tool can be use to shoot just about anything if use creatively so it is really hard to pick one that is right for someone because it may not be right for another, but I will suggest you a Littman 45 Single.  If I were still using as many film as before, I will continue to use it. 

Littman 45 Single http://www.littman45single.com/10gallery/gallery_home.html

Pingang
Shanghai

[EricWHiss]

Hi Marko,
I'm doing some exploring in this direction myself.  My first stop was a Speed Graphic with a top mounted rangefinder.   These cameras are cheap and you can hand hold and shoot with relative ease, but the coolest thing about them is you can fit virtually any lens from about 75mm to 300mm and they don't even need shutters since the camera has a focal plane shutter and you can switch the release from copal to focal plane shutter.   It might be my eyes but I find the rangefinder small and dim so focusing is hard to really get accurate with wide aperture settings. If it weren't for that, I'd really like the camera.

 I am trying out the 4x5 polaroid 110 conversions - they definitely have a huge rangefinder window and the later version (110B) have a combined viewfinder and rangefinder which is very cool.   I think this is the easiest 4x5 camera to use.  The drawback on these is that mostly they come with only what would be considered wide or normal lenses.  Competent converters like Razzle, Littmann and Alpenhause can fit all kinds of lenses but mostly in the range of 90-150mm.  For portraits probably 210 is going to be better but they won't support it.  Too bad as the rangefinder is awesome and its a pretty light camera (relative to something like the Speed Graphic or Linhof Technicka).  

I've mostly limited my search to rangefinder cameras because I couldn't imagine trying to focus with ground glass but people do it.    

One other camera on my list to try is the Graflex Super D.  It's a reflex 4x5 with a focus screen which might make handheld wide aperture work possible and longer lenses more suitable for portraits seem like they can be fitted.   These are pretty old cameras - not sure about the reliability.

Then there are the Wista and Linhoff rangefinders....

[MrSmith]

wasn't there a shorter lens to film plane series of lenses? think it was a 240 or 300? that was designed for field work.
i remember reading about them when i purchased my technicardan.
a 210 or 240 would be a good start for your kind of work.

[EricWHiss]

yeah, the lenses marked T for telephoto do have shorter focal lengths but I don't know how much shorter.  Anyone know?

[benmar]

 Most lenses need about as much lens-to-film distance as their focal length when focused at infinity. For example: a 300mm large format lens needs about 300mm from lens to film at infinity focus.  There have been some large format telephoto lenses made which need less lens-to-film distance than their focal length would suggest, making them more workable with cameras with limited bellows length. A 300mm TELEPHOTO lens might need more like 250mm (guessing here!) from lens to film at infinity, allowing its use on a camera with only 300mm of bellows length. Some examples of LF telephoto lenses are Schneider Tele Arton, and Tele Xenar, and Nikon Nikkor T. These are less common lenses though; harder to find, and as I recall, more expensive. Buying a camera with more bellows length probably makes more sense for someone wanting to use longer lenses, and this would allow use of the more normal lens designs (easier to find and probably less expensive.)