ImagePrint: When and where to perform soft proofing?

[robgo2]

After reading claims of superior print quality with ImagePrint, I decided to give it a whirl with my Epson 3880.  Having done so, I am now quite satisfied that the claims are essentially true.  Whether the visible improvement in quality is worth the price of the program is a matter for each individual to decide.

For me, one of the greatest advantages of IP is the ability to soft proof grayscale images, something that is not possible with the latest version of Epson's ABW driver.  What I am still uncertain about is where to perform this process.  Soft proofing can be done within Photoshop, using IP's gray paper profiles, or within IP itself.  The user's manual seems to recommend the latter, as it allows for very simple adjustments if one wants to print on different papers.  On the other hand, in my conversations with IP's technical support person, I was advised to soft proof in PS, because that program has better adjustment tools.  However, to do so optimally requires first converting from RGB to Gray L profile, which is supplied with IP.  This does yield excellent results, but I find that I still have to do minor tweaks in IP prior to printing.

Although I realize that there are not many ImagePrint users on this forum, I am hoping to hear opinions on the matter of soft proofing from those who have experience with the program.

Rob

    

[ippolitois]

I would make all the adjustments in your editor first, and then make any final touches in IP just before printing. IP softproofs all the time, and you can use there profiles with your editor to make changes. IP also offers greater tonal gradation and you might need to add a little contrast to the image if you want. I use IP for black suits and the gradation is so great that sometimes I have to use a little contrast to add punch. I was never able to get that with the Epson drivers.

Hope this helps,

Paul

[robgo2]

I would make all the adjustments in your editor first, and then make any final touches in IP just before printing. IP softproofs all the time, and you can use there profiles with your editor to make changes. IP also offers greater tonal gradation and you might need to add a little contrast to the image if you want. I use IP for black suits and the gradation is so great that sometimes I have to use a little contrast to add punch. I was never able to get that with the Epson drivers.

Hope this helps,

Paul

Thanks, Paul,

What you describe is basically what I have been doing.  Converting to Gray L in Photoshop and then using one of the ImagePrint gray paper profiles with "Preserve Numbers" checked is a revelation.  Never have I seen such deep blacks and and richly toned shadows.  I have noticed that when I open the edited image in IP, it appears somewhat less contrasty, even though I am applying the exact same profile.  Partly, that may be explained by the rather low quality image preview that IP provides.  Even the "High Resolution" preview is fairly weak.  That aside, I am loving the program and the prints that I am getting.  Any other pointers that you can provide will be greatly appreciated.

Rob 

[ippolitois]

Hi Rob,

What version of IP do you have? I had IP7 and the screen preview was horrible on my Dell 3008. I finally upgraded to IP9 and now I get full WYSIWYG. Apparently, it had to do with something with my monitor. I spoke to IP and they told me that the Dell monitors caused that problem but they corrected it once they new of the issue. With IP 9 I get excellent screen to print results. You might want to talk to IP and see why your high resolution preview is weak. I thought it was the full resolution of the file.

Have you tried printing a color image using IP gray profiles? I'd be curious to see what you get or have you tried Silver Efex Pro for B&W conversions? As for the screen difference between PS and IP, I see that too and that's why I recommended you tweak the final image in IP before you send it to the printer. Also, double check your color management setting to make sure they are to your liking.

Other than that, IP simple interface is a joy to use and there is very little to do other than press the print button.

Hope this helps.

Paul

[robgo2]

Paul,

I am using IP 9, and my monitor is a calibrated Apple 23 inch Cinema Display.  On my system, the high resolution preview in IP is decent, but not nearly as good as what I see in Photoshop.  I don't know why this should be the case, but it does make final soft proofing in IP a bit more challenging.  I have not tested it yet, but I wonder what would happen if you simply print in IP without any further adjustments.  Would that result in a print that is as close as possible to the image as seen in PS?

Rob

[ippolitois]

Hi Rob,

I just checked a file at High Resolution and it works for me with my Dell 3008 monitor, and I can view ever pore in the guys face.  After you open an image in IP, did you right click the image and select High Resolution for the display? Not to be rude, but do you have your monitor set at the max resolution it allows? I'm assuming you're using a Mac which is not in my area of knowledge.

I have noticed that the image in the editor and in IP do differ slightly, with the black less contrasty in IP. I believe it's by design, so you might want to tweak the final image in IP before sending to the printer.

I would also check you version level. I believe they issued a new version recently. and it might resolve your problem, but if the problem persists, I would report it to IP and see if they will be able to help.

Hope this helps.

Paul

[robgo2]

Hi Rob,

I just checked a file at High Resolution and it works for me with my Dell 3008 monitor, and I can view ever pore in the guys face.  After you open an image in IP, did you right click the image and select High Resolution for the display? Not to be rude, but do you have your monitor set at the max resolution it allows? I'm assuming you're using a Mac which is not in my area of knowledge.

I have noticed that the image in the editor and in IP do differ slightly, with the black less contrasty in IP. I believe it's by design, so you might want to tweak the final image in IP before sending to the printer.

I would also check you version level. I believe they issued a new version recently. and it might resolve your problem, but if the problem persists, I would report it to IP and see if they will be able to help.

Hope this helps.

Paul

Paul,

I'm reasonably confident that the fault does not lie with my monitor, and I do have the very latest version of IP installed.  I have been in contact with ColorByte's technical support crew, and they are puzzled as well.  The good news is that I have found that I can use ImagePrint as a pass through for printing only (no adjustments) after I have performed soft proofing with the correct IP profiles in Photoshop.  The prints match the PS image very closely, so I don't need to rely upon the IP preview.  The color accuracy, fine detail and tonal transitions in the prints are definitely a notch above what I can get from printing with Photoshop and the Epson driver.  It's almost like getting a new printer (and nearly as expensive too).  Of course, I am exaggerating, but not by as much as some people might think.

Rob

[ippolitois]

Hi Rob,

Glad to see you covered all the bases. I'm sure that Colorbyte will resolve your issue. When I had IP 7 the preview was horrible and I had to rely on the final image in PS and now Photo Line soft proofing for printing and I got very, very close. It's nice that Colorbyte resolved my preview issue in the latest update. I think the difference is that you can just apply the final tweaks before printing.

I have an Epson 4000 and the difference between the Epson driver and the IP driver is short of remarkable. I'm glad to hear that even the 3880 can still benefit from the use of IP.

Let us know if your issue is fixed.

Paul

[robgo2]

I have an Epson 4000 and the difference between the Epson driver and the IP driver is short of remarkable. I'm glad to hear that even the 3880 can still benefit from the use of IP.

Let us know if your issue is fixed.

Paul

Paul,

Did you mean to say that the difference is "nothing short of remarkable?"   The folks at ColorByte have told me that in their opinion, Epson has definitely improved their drivers over the years, but that ImagePrint still holds a significant lead.  (Of course, one would expect them to say that.)  It has something to do with the way that IP lays down ink droplets on the paper.  Also superior paper profiles are a big advantage.  If I had never tried IP, I would still be printing quite happily using PS/Epson driver/custom paper profiles on my 3880.  The results were very good.  Now with IP, the results are excellent.  How much is excellence worth? That is for each individual to decide.  For professionals, the answer would hinge on whether the difference in print quality would lead to increased sales.  For non-professionals, it is simply a matter of the how much additional pleasure they would derive from looking at and displaying superb prints.

Rob

[digitaldog]

It has something to do with the way that IP lays down ink droplets on the paper. 

Last time I tried both (a year ago on an 11880), I’d say there is a visible difference/advantage.

Also superior paper profiles are a big advantage.

Superior to what? Last time I checked, they still have issues with blues shifting magenta which doesn’t help one bit. I’ve been telling them this for years, even providing prints with good custom profiles compared to theirs. They seem to think this is normal or preferable. It isn’t!

[robgo2]

Last time I tried both (a year ago on an 11880), I’d say there is a visible difference/advantage.

Superior to what? Last time I checked, they still have issues with blues shifting magenta which doesn’t help one bit. I’ve been telling them this for years, even providing prints with good custom profiles compared to theirs. They seem to think this is normal or preferable. It isn’t!

Andrew,

I was hoping that you would join the discussion.  Thanks for dropping in.

One of my test images was a seascape with lots of blue water and blue sky.  ImagePrint nailed the blues nearly to perfection, whereas CS5/Epson did not (heavy magenta cast).  The latter was with Epson's own profile for Hot Press Natural, which you would think they could get right for one of their own printers.  But I have had similar experience with custom profiles.  I realize that not all custom profiles are equal, but these were from a respected source.

Aside from color accuracy, fine detail and tonal transitions, one of IP's greatest strengths is its capacity for soft proofing grayscale images using IP's gray paper profiles.  As I am mainly a B&W guy, this is hugely important, and the results are much better than with ABW.  ABW is certainly decent, but it is a hit or miss affair that does not take into account the specific paper that is being used.  You don't know what you're going to get until it comes out of the printer.

Rob
www.rgoldsteinphotography.com