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Author Topic: Microsoft Surface: The new field standard?  (Read 12303 times)

eronald

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Re: Microsoft Surface: The new field standard?
« Reply #20 on: June 21, 2012, 06:08:26 pm »

My computer-sophisticated friends are all talking about building themselves hackintoshes -PCs with Mac systems installed.

Edmund

All I can tell you is that very recently, a few weeks maybe, I'm assisting to a massive switch within the profesion. We know that this has been almost exclusively a Mac world, but wind is starting to blow in another direction.
As I'm one of the very few in Madrid who works on PC for some years, I've been surprised to be asked questions about peecees by profesionals all life Mac users and adicted at the brand wanting to switch to PC. Very specially whith people who are growing in motion, but not only.
One of my biggest boss has started to buy an HP workstation at first to cover compositing and editing tasks and since then, harly touched his Macs if not for mailings.

The very curious thing is that the shift is recent but seems to be massive.

I think Coot is right to say that the Apple's target now has changed to the masses, they do great stuff but when really big power is needed, the path to go IMO are PCs now. Therefore I'm sure we're going to see more and more PCs workstations in the pros studios.
 
« Last Edit: June 21, 2012, 06:11:46 pm by eronald »
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kencameron

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Re: Microsoft Surface: The new field standard?
« Reply #21 on: June 21, 2012, 06:44:55 pm »

My computer-sophisticated friends are all talking about building themselves hackintoshes -PCs with Mac systems installed.

I am wondering what software they would want, or need, to run that would work better on a Hackintosh than on a customised PC running Windows 7? How much time do they spend with the OS as their primary object of attention? How much better does cross-platform software run on Mac OS than Windows? A Hackintosh sounds like a half way house that might be best avoided.
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Ken Cameron

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Re: Microsoft Surface: The new field standard?
« Reply #22 on: June 22, 2012, 03:03:55 am »

Because I use Macs and PCs everyday I choose cross platform software wherever possible. Photoshop, Lightroom, Phocus, Flexcolor, Firefox, Audacity, Open Office (by whatever name it goes under), iTunes. I don't sit at the keyboard with a stopwatch but the perception is very similar.
What worries me is that interfacing with a Mac seems to be getting harder. Older (SCSI) scanner users have not had a Mac option for some time unless they network an old machine or use a 3rd party interface and I fear that present day firewire camera users might find themselves in the same situation.
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Pete_G

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Re: Microsoft Surface: The new field standard?
« Reply #23 on: June 22, 2012, 02:56:01 pm »

What on earth is "uncool" about a tablet that has an i5 Ivybridge, USB3 and a cover that turns into a full keyboard, a full version OS and the ability to run full versions of Adobe's finest?

Gimme "uncool" over cool any day...Oh..and the Surface will fit in my suit pocket too.
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deejjjaaaa

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Re: Microsoft Surface: The new field standard?
« Reply #24 on: June 22, 2012, 07:58:12 pm »

I am wondering what software they would want, or need, to run that would work better on a Hackintosh than on a customised PC running Windows 7?

there are applications that are not available on PC/Win - so you need somehow run OSX, for example : Aperture, Iridient Rawdeveloper, RPP, ...
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eronald

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Re: Microsoft Surface: The new field standard?
« Reply #25 on: June 23, 2012, 06:51:39 am »

I am wondering what software they would want, or need, to run that would work better on a Hackintosh than on a customised PC running Windows 7? How much time do they spend with the OS as their primary object of attention? How much better does cross-platform software run on Mac OS than Windows? A Hackintosh sounds like a half way house that might be best avoided.

I guess an OS is like a camera, little details and ergonomics are a key element of choice.

I think the bloatware installed by many PC makers has really damaged the rep of Windows ... all those windows which keep popping up asking you to update X, buy Y etc etc.

Indeed, this is one reason why I think Surface is a step forward, because it will for the first time make Microsoft responsible for the user experience on a PC. With Surface, as all components of the package are Microsoft and the sale is owned by Microsoft, they are finally standing up and taking responsibility for all aspects of the user experience -hardware, preloaded software, warranty service, updates, phone support etc.

You know times are tough when software companies start making real products with warranties.

Edmund
« Last Edit: June 23, 2012, 07:14:04 am by eronald »
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kencameron

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Re: Microsoft Surface: The new field standard?
« Reply #26 on: June 23, 2012, 12:23:06 pm »

I guess an OS is like a camera, little details and ergonomics are a key element of choice.

I think the bloatware installed by many PC makers has really damaged the rep of Windows ... all those windows which keep popping up asking you to update X, buy Y etc etc.

Indeed, this is one reason why I think Surface is a step forward, because it will for the first time make Microsoft responsible for the user experience on a PC.


+1 to all of that.

For my own part, these days I don't feel a need to choose between Operating Systems. I have a linux machine, a mac and a windows machine. They all work fine, get me to the software I want to run with minimal hassle, all run the same browser, and don't seem to hard to maintain. I don't know any of them very well and don't need to. If I were a more sophisticated user I would be no doubt be more sensitive to the subtle differences.

With many windows machines, the first half an hour certainly needs to go to deleting bloatware, tuning auto update etc - not that hard to do.

I hope Microsoft "gets" your point about taking responsibility for the total user experience. If it does, the high-spec Surface could be a great product.

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Ken Cameron

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Re: Microsoft Surface: The new field standard?
« Reply #27 on: June 23, 2012, 02:41:04 pm »

What on earth is "uncool" about ...
Maybe nothing, but there are some questions to be answered. After all, Microsoft has been pushing tablet PCs with stylus-operated touch screens for about a decade, without a lot of success. The Surface substantially reduces weight and probably price, but the biggest question is how much software there will be that is usable with touch screen alone, because when the keyboard is needed, you are if anything worse off than with the existing type of Windows tablet PC.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2012, 08:40:20 pm by BJL »
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PeterAit

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Re: Microsoft Surface: The new field standard?
« Reply #28 on: June 23, 2012, 02:48:39 pm »

Starting at 10 THOUSAND DOLLARS?!?! Riiip offff!
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eronald

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Re: Microsoft Surface: The new field standard?
« Reply #29 on: June 23, 2012, 04:02:38 pm »

Maybe nothing, but there are some questions to be answered. After all, Microsoft has been pushing tablet PCs with stylusnoperated touch screens for about a decade, without a lot of success. The surface substantially reduced weight and probably price, but the biggest question is how much software there will be that is usable with touch screen alone, because when the keyboard is needed, you oare if anything worse off than with the existing type of Windows tablet PC.

I think Lightroom is quite usable without a keyboard; Photoshop too, probably.

Edmund
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jduncan

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Re: Microsoft Surface: The new field standard?
« Reply #30 on: June 23, 2012, 08:42:50 pm »

Hi,

I really like that Microsoft has been able to find a way to create a mobile OS that is not just  a ripoff of Apple's work. As a creative person, this is proof positive that people can be creative instead of just stealing the ideas of others.

The prototypes of you know who mobile os looked like the  Blackberry, final products like iOS.

Surface seem promising, in particular the x86 version that could lead to more powerful tablets.
That does not mean that I believe that it will be a success. I am not sure is most people using tables will be willing to trade portability, but we will see.

In the other hand I found puzzling that some of the same people that find an iMac with a thunderbolt array laking on power find the i5 table adequate.

Best regards,

James
 

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eronald

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Re: Microsoft Surface: The new field standard?
« Reply #31 on: June 24, 2012, 08:18:47 am »

Well, it"s hard to create a ripoff of Xerox's work that is then not called a ripoff of Apple's work:
- bitmapped display with blitted cursor
- bitmapped fonts
- windows
- pulldown menus
- scrollbars
- onscreen video conferencing
- onscreen gesture recognition

whenever Apple complains of the above they neglect to say that they were invented by Xerox, implemented by Xerox, licensed by Apple and now used to "demonstrate" copying even when Apple has no claim to them. Some days Apple reminds me of that female artist who got prints of Ansel Adams from the Library of Congress, signed them, staged a show, and claimed they were now her original works because after all she had "appropriated" them by signing them. Steve Jobs is a hero, Alan Kay and Doug Engelbart are has-been idiots. The same story holds of Linus Torvalds and the Multics and Unix guys - even I cannot remember their names. Although to be fair Torvalds never claimed he invented anything, but he never went out of his way to hoist the inventors up on the podium, either.


Edmund


Hi,

I really like that Microsoft has been able to find a way to create a mobile OS that is not just  a ripoff of Apple's work.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2012, 08:52:50 am by eronald »
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RobertJ

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Re: Microsoft Surface: The new field standard?
« Reply #32 on: June 24, 2012, 12:03:08 pm »

I think the bloatware installed by many PC makers has really damaged the rep of Windows ... all those windows which keep popping up asking you to update X, buy Y etc etc.

You're right, but this is the beauty of building a PC, or taking your HP/Dell/Lenovo/Sony/whatever PC brand it is, and installing a fresh version of Windows off the shelf.  (Apple users will roll their eyes and say "Don't have to do that with a Mac."  Well guess what?... I don't care). 

It's like night and day.  It's CLEAN.

I've fixed many PC problems, and the worst case of bloatware that I've seen on a Windows machine happened to be a Sony. 

This Sony PC was taken over by "Sony" software like it was a virus.

There was a whole suite of Sony programs installed (Sony this, Sony that...) that needed to be uninstalled, or disabled at startup, etc.  Bastards.

Buy Windows off the shelf and rejuvenate your PC.
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jduncan

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Re: Microsoft Surface: The new field standard?
« Reply #33 on: June 24, 2012, 02:52:49 pm »

Well, it"s hard to create a ripoff of Xerox's work that is then not called a ripoff of Apple's work:
- bitmapped display with blitted cursor
- bitmapped fonts
- windows
- pulldown menus
- scrollbars
- onscreen video conferencing
- onscreen gesture recognition

whenever Apple complains of the above they neglect to say that they were invented by Xerox, implemented by Xerox, licensed by Apple and now used to "demonstrate" copying even when Apple has no claim to them. Some days Apple reminds me of that female artist who got prints of Ansel Adams from the Library of Congress, signed them, staged a show, and claimed they were now her original works because after all she had "appropriated" them by signing them. Steve Jobs is a hero, Alan Kay and Doug Engelbart are has-been idiots. The same story holds of Linus Torvalds and the Multics and Unix guys - even I cannot remember their names. Although to be fair Torvalds never claimed he invented anything, but he never went out of his way to hoist the inventors up on the podium, either.


Edmund





Well, it"s hard to create a ripoff of Xerox's work that is then not called a ripoff of Apple's work:
- bitmapped display with blitted cursor
- bitmapped fonts
- windows
- pulldown menus
- scrollbars
- onscreen video conferencing
- onscreen gesture recognition

whenever Apple complains of the above they neglect to say that they were invented by Xerox, implemented by Xerox, licensed by Apple and now used to "demonstrate" copying even when Apple has no claim to them. Some days Apple reminds me of that female artist who got prints of Ansel Adams from the Library of Congress, signed them, staged a show, and claimed they were now her original works because after all she had "appropriated" them by signing them. Steve Jobs is a hero, Alan Kay and Doug Engelbart are has-been idiots. The same story holds of Linus Torvalds and the Multics and Unix guys - even I cannot remember their names. Although to be fair Torvalds never claimed he invented anything, but he never went out of his way to hoist the inventors up on the podium, either.


Edmund



Edmund, in my opinion there is no ripoff if the one been ripoff is a willing participant. There were even  a stock related exchange.

If I invite someone to my home to learn about baking, and I charge them, it's expected that they will bake something using what they learn. I am aware that  Xerox sued Apple about the GUI as connected to the Star, but there were never a conclusion due to the status of limitations. 

In the results of Microsoft vs Apple is clear that the general ideas are not protected legally, I believe they should not be morally either.  The problem is when a platform is so close it's difficult to distinguish one from the other.

I did not did any reference to personal computers, by the way. I was talking about mobile devices. Also there is a difference between a similar technology ( I say that surface was original, but the underlining technology is the same: Multi touch, gesture based interface), and a photocopy.

I see that you are aware of Linux/GNU evolution. I will say that KDE use to be a ripoff of windows. Gnome was not.  That is what I am trying to express.

The legacy of Xerox Parc is amizing by the way.  Talking about Steve Jobs here is him saying that he remember OOP from his visit to Xerox, and that ifuenced NeXT too (It's very long, the part is on 3:01:14):



Finally : I don't represent Apple Computer, never claimed to do. I am not here to defend Apple, promote tier products etc.  I am not invested on hurting them either, or any other company by that mater.


I just like original work. Surface show it to be possible.

Best regards,

James
 
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kencameron

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Re: Microsoft Surface: The new field standard?
« Reply #34 on: June 24, 2012, 06:11:09 pm »

Buy Windows off the shelf and rejuvenate your PC.

I am curious to know what the advantage is of this over simply deleting the bloatware and removing startup entries etc that you don't want. I don't mean to imply that there is no advantage - just curious about what advantage I would get by paying the not insignificant price of a fresh copy of windows.
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eronald

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Re: Microsoft Surface: The new field standard?
« Reply #35 on: June 25, 2012, 01:47:12 am »



Edmund, in my opinion there is no ripoff if the one been ripoff is a willing participant. There were even  a stock related exchange.

If I invite someone to my home to learn about baking, and I charge them, it's expected that they will bake something using what they learn. I am aware that  Xerox sued Apple about the GUI as connected to the Star, but there were never a conclusion due to the status of limitations.  

In the results of Microsoft vs Apple is clear that the general ideas are not protected legally, I believe they should not be morally either.  The problem is when a platform is so close it's difficult to distinguish one from the other.

I did not did any reference to personal computers, by the way. I was talking about mobile devices. Also there is a difference between a similar technology ( I say that surface was original, but the underlining technology is the same: Multi touch, gesture based interface), and a photocopy.

I see that you are aware of Linux/GNU evolution. I will say that KDE use to be a ripoff of windows. Gnome was not.  That is what I am trying to express.

The legacy of Xerox Parc is amizing by the way.  Talking about Steve Jobs here is him saying that he remember OOP from his visit to Xerox, and that ifuenced NeXT too (It's very long, the part is on 3:01:14):



Finally : I don't represent Apple Computer, never claimed to do. I am not here to defend Apple, promote tier products etc.  I am not invested on hurting them either, or any other company by that mater.


I just like original work. Surface show it to be possible.

Best regards,

James
 


The problem with Apple was not that they used the stuff licensed from Xerox, it was that they passed off the ideas as their own to the general public, and then built on that by an extremely litigious behavior, suing everyone else so that people kept out of the GUI arena out of sheer fear. I know this now seems improbable to believe, but look at the volume of litigation they have now created in the mobile phone arena.

Edmund
« Last Edit: June 25, 2012, 01:48:46 am by eronald »
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