Most efficient Epson printer right now?

[PrecariousPosition]

Hi guys,

I just graduated from school and having owned and used an Epson 3800 for several years now I'm looking to move on and grab something 24" or 44" wide. My main concern is not the initial outlay of money but rather the efficient use of ink and paper as I've lived with the 3800's ink switching and poor sheet feeding of thicker materials for too long.

Which of the Epson's best fits the bill in your opinion? Thanks in advance.

[Ernst Dinkla]

Why the restriction to Epson if it has to be an efficient printer?


--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

Dinkla Grafische Techniek
Quad,piëzografie,giclée
www.pigment-print.com

[PrecariousPosition]

I deal with a store I like that sells only Epson and there would have to be some sort of massive advantage to a Canon or HP to give up years of experience with Epson.

On the other hand, feel free to dissuade me.

[jrossee]

Hi,

have you been running a RIP with your 3800? I think once you have passed the 38xx and higher class with Epson the best way to save ink and paper is by running a production grade rip. I don't know about the kind of volumes you plan to print but you might want to take a good software rip into your calculation.
Cheers,
JAN

[Ernst Dinkla]

I deal with a store I like that sells only Epson and there would have to be some sort of massive advantage to a Canon or HP to give up years of experience with Epson.

On the other hand, feel free to dissuade me.

There is a lot of information already available in this forum. Read the threads on head issues and ink waste of Epsons above the 3880 category. Most rely on a similar blacks switch the 3880 has. Read the threads on choices between Epson and Canon wide inkjet models and what users experience is. With a career to start, printing volume will not be a first thing to worry about. In that case also consider a HP Z model as it is frugal on ink, has cheap replaceable heads whenever needed and incorporates a calibration + printer profile creation solution that makes the use of third party papers cheaper. The Zs have disadvantages too like any other printer has. Sheet feeding is manual per sheet on all 24"s and up but the Epson and Canon are easier to load than the HP.

If you are a photographer you do not need a RIP. If you are on Windows get Qimage Ultimate or Lightroom, on a Mac LIghtroom. and then cope with the limited print functions compared to Qimage.

--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

Dinkla Grafische Techniek
Quad,piëzografie,giclée
www.pigment-print.com

[Benny Profane]

Hi,

have you been running a RIP with your 3800? I think once you have passed the 38xx and higher class with Epson the best way to save ink and paper is by running a production grade rip. I don't know about the kind of volumes you plan to print but you might want to take a good software rip into your calculation.
Cheers,
JAN

How exactly does a rip save ink and paper?

[Ernst Dinkla]

How exactly does a rip save ink and paper?

In my experience by dropping the quality of the image printed. For example using only CMYK inks when the printer has CcMmYKkk or more inks available for a wider gamut, better gradients, etc. Ink use is reduced that way. Paper waste can be reduced by nesting images more efficiently but that can also be done with Qimage.


--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

340+ paper white spectral plots:
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
update april 2012: Harman by Hahnemühle, Innova IFA45 and more

[Benny Profane]

As somebody who has worked in pre press for some time, I understand how valuable a RIP is in the proofing process (which also can be a very high quality printing process), but, for the life of me, I don't understand how a purchase of software for thousands of dollars can be justified for high end photography printing. Do you really save that much ink?

[jrossee]

How exactly does a rip save ink and paper?

To find out exactly you 'll have to ask the rip manufacturers but the underlying principle is called GCR or grey component replacement which in simple terms means using more black ink than C, M, and/or Y ink to print any hue that "leans" towards grey like less saturated colors. Instead of combining two of the CMY inks to move a hue towards grey the rip saves ink by using more black ink instead. So at the end of the day you'll only have to replace one ink cartridge instead of two - this is oversimplified of course but I think you get the picture.

I never tried Qimage but on OS X I'm pretty happy with PrintFab --> www.printfab.net

Cheers, JAN

[jrossee]

As somebody who has worked in pre press for some time, I understand how valuable a RIP is in the proofing process (which also can be a very high quality printing process), but, for the life of me, I don't understand how a purchase of software for thousands of dollars can be justified for high end photography printing. Do you really save that much ink?

It probably won't save you thousand of dollars in ink but not all RIPs (or better software with RIP functionality) cost that kind of money - especially not if they're aimed at reproducing images mostly. PrintFab and Qimage are more in the EUR/$ 100,- range (my last purchase of ink for the 3880 put me back around 350,- Euronis!).
Since you're in prepress the term "RIP" wasn't used wisely by myself, I have to admit. But let's face it - the term "RIP" got carried over mostly from the old days, when there still were raster images to process, right 
Cheers, JAN.

[Ernst Dinkla]

Any printer driver today will have GCR or UCR in its media presets, whether delivered with or custom made for RIPs or in the printer manufacturer's OEM driver for Windows or Mac. You run into drying problems, excessive ink bleeding, harder to keep grey neutrality etc if they are not used. Extreme GCR or UCR to save more ink will deliver muddy colors, too much black added.


--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

340+ paper white spectral plots:
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
update april 2012: Harman by Hahnemühle, Innova IFA45 and more

[Benny Profane]

Any printer driver today will have GCR or UCR in its media presets, whether delivered with or custom made for RIPs or in the printer manufacturer's OEM driver for Windows or Mac. You run into drying problems, excessive ink bleeding, harder to keep grey neutrality etc if they are not used. Extreme GCR or UCR to save more ink will deliver muddy colors, too much black added.

Right. If one is concerned with making the highest quality prints for sale, I would definitely turn off the GCR and UCR, a technology that large magazine publishers developed in the late 80s to save ink costs, and, it really works, but, have you picked up a mass market publication lately? My comic books when I was a kid looked better. The IPad is actually saving modern magazines with that wonderful screen.

[Ernst Dinkla]

And I would use the right amount of UCR or GCR to get the best quality, as already done in most OEM printer drivers media presets so something I do not worry about.


--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

Dinkla Grafische Techniek
Quad,piëzografie,giclée
www.pigment-print.com

[Wayne Fox]

To find out exactly you 'll have to ask the rip manufacturers but the underlying principle is called GCR or grey component replacement which in simple terms means using more black ink than C, M, and/or Y ink to print any hue that "leans" towards grey like less saturated colors. Instead of combining two of the CMY inks to move a hue towards grey the rip saves ink by using more black ink instead. So at the end of the day you'll only have to replace one ink cartridge instead of two - this is oversimplified of course but I think you get the picture.

What you describe is pretty standard with all good drivers now.  Epson printers make extensive use of LLK and LK when printing color images.  In most color images it will use as much as 10x the ink of those colors vs any other color.

Personally I think a RIP is about control, not about saving money.  I don't think you can ever recover the cost of a RIP in savings of ink and paper.  The exception might be if you are needing the extensive layout capabilities of the RIP which might save paper, but Lightroom can pretty much take care of that as well.

[tonywong]

There seems to be ridiculous sale pricing on Canon 24" and 44" printers every now and then, and sometimes HP as well. Not sure on when or why it happens, you'd think they are clearing inventory for a new model but many times it just appears randomly (to me at least).

[PrecariousPosition]

Yes but how about those Epson printers guys...?

(I've read lots of other threads and reviews here and elsewhere, I was hoping for a more limited discussion of the three current Epson models from people with experience with them)

[Benny Profane]

Yes but how about those Epson printers guys...?

(I've read lots of other threads and reviews here and elsewhere, I was hoping for a more limited discussion of the three current Epson models from people with experience with them)

Well, since 04 I have worked in two shops with a few (from 04 to 07 four 9800s, and for the past four years four 9900s), and, I have to tell you, they hardly ever break. Amazingly trouble free. They are used a lot, which I'm told, helps. As far as comparable inch usage to other printers, I have no clue.

[Benny Profane]

  The exception might be if you are needing the extensive layout capabilities of the RIP which might save paper, but Lightroom can pretty much take care of that as well.

Photoshop, too.

[Farmer]

In terms of ink usage to create a given image, you won't see a particular difference.  The gains to be made are through using larger ink cartridges which are sold at prices that are less per ml than the smaller cartridges.

There may be some queries or concerns about cleaning cycles and usage of ink compared between the models, but for the vast majority of users this is not an issue (for those for whom it is an issue, I am not diminishing in any way the problems that you may be facing - let's not turn this into something beyond what the OP has asked).  Again, even with cleaning, the larger carts provide a saving, but they're no more or less "efficient".

My advice would be to find a dealer which has a 4900 and a 7900 (or 7890) in stock and have a look and try them out.  I know you didn't mention a 17" but have a look.  Between a 24" and 44" other than size, there's no difference (so if they have a 9900 or 9890 in stock, look at that instead).

[Bob Smith]

I've had experience with most of the wide format Epsons over the past ten years.  I've personally owned three 44" and three 17" models.  I manage a lab at a school that currently has two 4900s, a 7890 and 9900.  I've had very minimal trouble with any of them.  I've never had a service call on my personal printers (10 years) and only twice on the school printers over the past four years... and those are heavily used by novice users.

I bought a 9890 in January to replace my aging but still well working 9600 (MK ink) and 9800 (PK ink) setup.  With instant rebate it was $3600.  Heck of a lot of productive printer for the price.  The 44" models require more space to store... they're more trouble to move... and they cost about $1K more.  Other than that, using them is identical to the 24" models in every way.  You don't have to sell very many large prints to pay for that cost difference and then you have a printer with MUCH more capability in terms of delivering large images.  Even if you don't print large often, its nice to have the ability to do so... and to be able to say yes to jobs that require it.  If you have the space and cash up front I would strongly consider the larger version.

Bob Smith