Topic: Continual dark prints on Epson 7800/7900 (Read 14655 times)

randal21 · « **on:** May 31, 2012, 10:52:47 am »

I have had the dark print problem from my Epson 7900 that I used to have with my 7800. My monitor is calibrated, I use the right printer paper profiles. I had my printer profiles done .. he said it was more a Mac system/Adobe Epson quirk and had trouble with targeting my samples. So how do I solve it. Getting old. I scan most of the work or use the clients tif's. Help please.

natas · « **Reply #1 on:** May 31, 2012, 11:51:40 am »

If your color looks right and matches but everything seems dark then this is more and likely 2 things....or 1 of these 2 things

1) Your monitor is to bright. Your image on paper will never be as bright (IMHO) as it is on screen.

2) When looking at the print your lighting is not bright enough. This is a big one. When I view prints I never view them in my office. My office lighting is pretty average but that is nearly not enough lighting to match what I see on my screen

I ran into this same issue myself and had the same issue across the board. I have printed in Windows and OSX on both HP and Epson printers. They all have the same results.

I have learned to always look at my histogram first before printing, then I evaluate the picture and from my experience I know when a print will appear to be to dark on paper. In cases like this I just bump up the brightness a little. If you have a monitor that is really bright try experimenting with bumping the brightness of your image before printing. I usually bump brightness on some of my images +10-15 and get the results I want.

I truthfully believe that if your colors are right but your prints appear to be too dark it is one of the issues above.

The funny thing here is a smaller print usually will appear to be darker to your eyes than the same exact print done larger.

randal21 · « **Reply #2 on:** May 31, 2012, 12:11:59 pm »

Thanks for the reply. My monitor is not too bright (I sold a nice imac that was too bright to be in the brightness range needed). I view the work under 5000k bulbs. I do print out a small proof on 1/2 of an 8.5 x11 sheet. I usually target a section of the original at actual size too to compare. How are you adding the brightness adjustment? I mainly do my color corrections in curves and hue and saturation. thanks.

natas · « **Reply #3 on:** May 31, 2012, 02:23:16 pm »

If I am in a hurry I just use the brightness/contrast slider. I move brightness to +10-15. When I am not in a hurry I will do some editing using curves to brighten up the image.

randal21 · « **Reply #4 on:** May 31, 2012, 02:28:21 pm »

I can't be in a hurry as I am matching a print to a piece of art to be printed. Time doesn't matter as the results are what I am after to please the artists. Time matters to me, plus paper and ink, when I have to keep tweaking it. The monitor matches the artwork ... just the Epson printout that has always been the issue.

digitaldog · « **Reply #5 on:** May 31, 2012, 02:50:04 pm »

Output a reference image as described in this URL. Does it print too dark?

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/why_are_my_prints_too_dark.shtml

BarbaraArmstrong · « **Reply #6 on:** May 31, 2012, 05:14:07 pm »

Just to mention, the 5000K of your bulbs refers to the color of their light, not to their brightness. --Barbara

Tony Jay · « **Reply #7 on:** May 31, 2012, 10:51:20 pm »

I would go with Andrew Rodney's advice.

BTW, when you calibrate your monitor to what brightness in candelas/m2 is the calibration?
The question does not imply that there is a single best setting (there isn't) just that it may help the experts on this site guide you better.
In general the brighter the surroundings that one is editing in the brighter one's monitor needs to be and vica versa.
It would really appear your monitor is still too bright for the surrounds in which you are editing.

Read Andrew's article and then perhaps broaden your research to get a really good handle on this aspect of colour management and printing.

Regards

Tony Jay

randal21 · « **Reply #8 on:** June 02, 2012, 10:53:02 am »

I am reading Andrew Rodney's article on dark prints and had a question. I downloaded the printer test file as suggested and wondered how the color profile effects it. I have Adobe RGB 1998 as my working space and this file is Color Match RGB. When I bring it in and check on assigning a profile I see the print gets darker as I try my working space. What would be the correct way to handle this test print file? It looks so much lighter in their ColorMatch RGB setting.

digitaldog · « **Reply #9 on:** June 02, 2012, 12:57:16 pm »

Quote from: randal21 on June 02, 2012, 10:53:02 am

I am reading Andrew Rodney's article on dark prints and had a question. I downloaded the printer test file as suggested and wondered how the color profile effects it. I have Adobe RGB 1998 as my working space and this file is Color Match RGB. When I bring it in and check on assigning a profile I see the print gets darker as I try my working space. What would be the correct way to handle this test print file? It looks so much lighter in their ColorMatch RGB setting.

Have Photoshop honor the embedded profile (ColorMatch RGB), then print as usual. You do not want to Assign a profile!

If it looks too light, well there is part of your answers to the too dark print issue!

randal21 · « **Reply #10 on:** June 02, 2012, 04:31:42 pm »

The print looks closer with the ColorMatch RGB setting left as is. Does this mean I should change my color space from RGB 1998? Still left alittle in the dark on sorting it out. Thanks for your help. Now what?

pfigen · « **Reply #11 on:** June 02, 2012, 04:41:58 pm »

Randl21 - there's been no mention of the other problem that can cause dark prints. What version of Photoshop and OS are you using? There are certain combinations of Ps and Mac OS where prints were dark and had nothing at all to do with monitor brightness or viewing light.

chaddro · « **Reply #12 on:** June 02, 2012, 05:47:22 pm »

Quote from: pfigen on June 02, 2012, 04:41:58 pm

Randl21 - there's been no mention of the other problem that can cause dark prints. What version of Photoshop and OS are you using? There are certain combinations of Ps and Mac OS where prints were dark and had nothing at all to do with monitor brightness or viewing light.

AND also your epson print driver version...

gfsymon · « **Reply #13 on:** June 02, 2012, 06:04:12 pm »

First reply was probably on the nail. The monitor is too bright ... for the ambient light in the room.

Place a sheet of white paper near you monitor, lit evenly by the rooms' ambient light. Open an empty Finder window (white) and fill the screen with it. Adjust brightness until it matches the sheet of paper. That is now your white (as far as you eyes are concerned). Leave some white around your images (on screen) when judging for print.

Pay no attention to the numbers (luminance value) except as a guide. Use your eyes.

digitaldog · « **Reply #14 on:** June 02, 2012, 06:19:57 pm »

Quote from: randal21 on June 02, 2012, 04:31:42 pm

The print looks closer with the ColorMatch RGB setting left as is. Does this mean I should change my color space from RGB 1998? Still left alittle in the dark on sorting it out. Thanks for your help. Now what?

No, the reference image in whatever space is simply a reality check. You used it, it didn’t print dark right? IF so, you can ignore all the comments about the print driver, OS etc. You got a good print. And IF it looks kind of light to you, then this again points to the display being the culprit. It is too light, and you darken the images based on what you see incorrectly on-screen, you get a dark print. You can continue to work with any RGB working space. You don’t have to worry that the reference image was in ColorMatch. That reference print is known to print well (not too light or dark) assuming the rest of the print path is sound. This appears to be the case based on this first test. You need to properly calibrate your display.

Tony Jay · « **Reply #15 on:** June 02, 2012, 06:39:58 pm »

Andrew is exactly right.

What you need to do need now is adjust you monitor brightness to match the print.

Regards

Tony Jay

randal21 · « **Reply #16 on:** June 03, 2012, 12:03:46 pm »

Thanks guys. I calibrated my monitor (Lacie 324) this morning with a 90 luminance rather than the suggested 120 for LCD. It calibrated within a tight range. As I relook at my print from Digital Dog the print is still darker. When I manually lower my brightness it still is not as dark as the print. So now what? Do I keep lowering the luminance as I recalibrate? I had an imac a few years ago and it was way to bright to get within range so I sold it. I am using Photoshop CS4 and Mac OS 10.5.8 Are there alot of MAc owners out there who print on Epson printers who don't have dark print problems?

digitaldog · « **Reply #17 on:** June 03, 2012, 12:27:27 pm »

Quote from: randal21 on June 03, 2012, 12:03:46 pm

Thanks guys. I calibrated my monitor (Lacie 324) this morning with a 90 luminance rather than the suggested 120 for LCD. It calibrated within a tight range. As I relook at my print from Digital Dog the print is still darker. When I manually lower my brightness it still is not as dark as the print. So now what? Do I keep lowering the luminance as I recalibrate? I had an imac a few years ago and it was way to bright to get within range so I sold it. I am using Photoshop CS4 and Mac OS 10.5.8

I think you need to re-read the URL on Why are my prints too dark. You can and should control and raise the print viewing conditions next to the display. I think you are thinking the print is too dark which may or may not be the case. It sounds like it isn’t. It sounds like there is still a mismatch between display and print. You have two ways to control this! Take the print outside. Is it too dark?

Quote

Are there alot of MAc owners out there who print on Epson printers who don't have dark print problems?

A lot of users don’t understand the difference between a truly dark print which is possible and a print that looks darker than the display. The article points out the differences. You can’t fix the problem until you clearly identify the problem.

randal21 · « **Reply #18 on:** June 03, 2012, 01:03:09 pm »

Maybe if I added i am trying to match a print to the piece of artwork I am reproducing. At the end is the artist saying my prints are darker than their artwork. It looks okay on the monitor ... matches the art work ...but the final print is tooo dark. I did a final increase from 15-29 increase in brightness and at 29 = matches the screen target. So now do I adjust the image on screen to the art work and add a plus brightness factor to avoid a darker print? thanks.

digitaldog · « **Reply #19 on:** June 03, 2012, 01:06:40 pm »

Quote from: randal21 on June 03, 2012, 01:03:09 pm

Maybe if I added i am trying to match a print to the piece of artwork I am reproducing. At the end is the artist saying my prints are darker than their artwork.

So you’re viewing the print and the original next to each other? Then the display has to also match ideally and you have to view all three in context and calibrate/view the prints with this in mind.

The only difference in the above scenario is you have to view another item (the original art) next to the print and the display. You can get all three to match. But you’ll have to control both sets (prints and display) as described.

Author Topic: Continual dark prints on Epson 7800/7900 (Read 14655 times)